Avatars in Jyotisha

Avatars in Jyotisha

[00:00:00] Introduction and Welcome

[00:00:00] Fiona Marques: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Vedic Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marques, and today I am with my friend and colleague, Sachin Sharma. 

[00:00:09] Sachin Sharma: Hello everyone. Thank you Fiona, for having me back. 

[00:00:13] Fiona Marques: We seem to have caught each other at the right time for a catch up episode today, because, not to give away spoilers, but we've been talking a little bit about mythology on The Vedic Astrology Podcast, and quite separately, you've also been contemplating, reflecting and building meaning with mythology too.

[00:00:34] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. And especially so because on the day that we got in touch again 

I was discussing exactly something related to what you were also exploring. And then we decided to go with that topic. So it was just so synchronistic, it was so aligned from the universe that, just go ahead.

[00:00:54] Fiona Marques: It really is because prior to that, Sachin and I, for maybe six months had been exchanging WhatsApps.

[00:01:00] Vedic Astrology and Jungian Psychology

[00:01:00] Fiona Marques: Now, before we dive into the topic today, let's just share a little bit about your background and these two profound interests that you have: on one side, Vedic Astrology and on the other side, can I say Jungian psychology or psychology? Tell us a little bit about your love for those topics and how that came about and how they interact inside of you.

[00:01:25] Sachin Sharma: Jyotish, Vedic Astrology in general has been brewing within me for the past 10 years. I encountered it in 2014, January. I had already been introduced to it coming from a Hindu background from India. So I was always introduced to Astrology on some way, but it was only in 2014 that I started digging into it more.

It started investigating it, it wasn't making sense, but was just fun. It was exciting, different, and it, there was so many intelligent people practicing it, PhD scholars and scientists and researchers of all kinds. So it didn't make sense to me, and I thought, if it's making sense to some of these really imminent intelligent people, then it's, there's something probably that I'm not catching on, I'm not understanding fully.

So I kept exploring it and I clicked. There were moments where it made sense, it didn't make sense. And over the years I pursued it more deeply until there was a point in 2017 that I decided that I'm gonna stop everything else. And pursue it as a career, as something that I want to do my research and pursue it to generate an income and earn a livelihood with and help out people, became my purpose.

And Jung also started to show up a lot since the beginning, but I would never understand it fully. 2014 itself I think there were moments, but very fleeting, just links online and when you just go down the rabbit hole while researching, but none of Jungian texts. Then in 2015, it came again, I think 2015 I got, or 16 I got man and his symbols by Kung and I just started traveling with it a lot and it, I had to really reread and read again and understand the way he speaks, the way he articulates himself, because firstly, he's talking about something so subtle and nuanced, new itself as a concept, and then the language he uses is also quite a, quite intricate, quite sophisticated.

So I carried that one book for a long time, and along with it, then I got into more texts and then as I, As my understanding of Astrology became deeper, then Jung also showed up more in cycles. It drifted away, then came back with double the intensity, then drifted back away, then came back, tripled the intensity until I'm just like, "I gotta do it". It just makes so much sense. 

The bridge between the two happened because my core belief is that an Astrologer, a Jyotishi, is fundamentally a counselor, a therapist, and it's an undeniable fact. Astrologers want to just be merely just predict and just not take any accountability and responsibility for this speaking. So they need to be fundamentally be trauma informed. They need to have some basic understanding of the psyche because you're dealing with Moon, which is Manas, and Manas is your psyche, is your is where the ego, where the "I", where the Ahamkara resides. You need to have that sort of understanding of what you're gonna predict for whom and how will this person deal with this.

And then a lot of this got confirmed through all the clients that I was getting who were traumatized by Astrology, by Astrologers, because a part of them believed in Astrology, a part of them wasn't happy. And all those predictions and insights were taking away something from them about their own power as an individual, about their own capacity for choice.

So then Jung becomes like a perfect bridge because Jung was fundamentally an Astrologer at heart. He writes about it since the beginning, even his encounters with Freud his initial letters before he had started physically meeting Freud. He writes that "My evenings are spent studying Astrology, and it's a rich reservoir of beautiful insights". And then Freud says, "Don't just get too engaged with it. It's a matter of superstitions". And then how Jung derives a lot of his "Psychological Types", his "Theory of Archetypes" and how he develops it further. Jung is a process. You have to understand. Jung is not just one thing. Jung in 19 13 is different from the Jung in 1930. And you need to understand his later understandings to see where he was going with his research and studies. He's a process. He's not Freud, who's just had a breakthrough in understanding, and then he just ran with it for the rest of his life unable to move around. So Jung adapted to it. 

So if you understand later Jung, he gets into the Vedic texts. , he gets into Sufism, and he talks about the importance of having the right kind of teachers, the right kind of guru. He says, "If I have only one regret in life, it would be not finding the right kind of spiritual guru at the right time". Which is so profound because he was coming the sort of understandings that a non-modernised, non westernized Indian psyche. 

So Jung is like the perfect bridge because his theories are built on Astrology. He tried to get in touch with B. V. Raman. which was really interesting because we, professor b we Ramen was the one who, who The first person in India who was formalizing Jyotish and translating Hindi and Sanskrit texts and through English and organizing all the knowledge into proper themes.

So that became a very important part of the process. Like It was just really something that needs to be done with bridging Jungian Astrology. So I have a project on that, on Jung ian Jyotish at Jungian Astrology.com. So everyone is most welcome to visit that website, www.Jungian Astrology.com 

[00:05:40] Fiona Marques: I'm wondering actually, is it unusual for an Indian born Astrologer to also embrace Jungian psychology? I know that for Western Astrologers there's a really natural pathway for Western Astrologers and Jungian psychologists. It's quite aligned, quite a strong body of practitioners. And maybe there are also Western Astrologers who learn Vedic Astrology, who also are into Jung. But is it relatively unusual for someone born in India to come through Vedic Astrology and have Jung a specialty?

[00:06:16] Sachin Sharma: Yes very uncommon. And not just that, like we, we don't know what to do with it. We have not figured out the pathway to make the connection. So even if we have these Jungian analysts in India, they're very grounded in Western ideas. The whole Indian psychology diaspora or the whole psychology industry in India is very much grounded in Western psychology academia. They are not in tune with India much in, they're very, in fact, there's almost like a resistance towards so they, if for example, if there's psychosomatic therapy and they would use certain breathing techniques, which are basically pranama but they, and they're completely like, literally been influenced by Pranama, but they're just repackaged by the west as as a breathing technique that we found out about in the lab.

So it's sad because Indians are, and this causes, As Jung would say, it causes neurosis. When you are historically uprooted from your psyches past, from the vara and Sams that you bring forth from lifetime to lifetime. So when you, yourself, from that process of development from your own culture, your own roots sort of thing, then you go into a state of neurosis. It's a chaotic state where you are this awkward mess of awkward cultural mess where you're neither fully westernized when you go to the west. You're this wannabe American. And when you're in India, you're just this Another mess. So it's like a huge mix.

It's a huge, it's a different topic. It's a huge mess with that. So it is uncommon and because it's, we don't know how to thing to make this, And that's one of the efforts of Jungian Astrology / Jungian Jyotish to bridge the two without appropriating one of the two and like creating a proper dialogue.

[00:06:45] Fiona Marques: I think this is where, the timing is really aligned for us to speak because I've had Nisha on the podcast with me for several episodes looking at all the richness and the knowledge and wisdom that is in v planetary pathology that is a little bit hard to digest for outsiders because we don't have the cultural background, but also for people, she's grown up in an Indian culture.

It can be. A little bit restricting that the meaning of these myths is owned by the culture and it is what it is and you can't mess with it. You can't access it in a new way because that would be breaching the sacred cultural connection that there is. And so it's, how do we do this respectfully to engage both ways, as you are saying, Yong came from the west and was incredibly interested in Archetypes across all cultures and did so much in one lifetime to gather stories and understandings from different cultures.

India has also done so well in the last 150, 200 years to influence the west, the influence of yoga, just the practice of yoga. And then through that, the openness to the philosophy of yoga has really infiltrated so deeply into modern western culture. But now it's like, how does all of that influence back into itself?

How does one bring that respectfully back into Indian culture? And a culture that is so integrates its practice of religion, of lifestyle, of daily routines of the way one lives. They're all very integrated. So how do we influence that? Respectfully.

[00:06:45] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. So in India, there's this so we, in, especially in Hinduism, in Sonata and Herma, we it's not so rigid. It's not a rigid paradigm. In fact, Hinduism is one of the most fluid religions that we have. To the point that we have dissolved ourselves to the point we feed into everything fully.

Like every other, even Sufism uses Hinduism, Sikhism uses Hinduism. Even Buddhism uses Hinduism everywhere. It can feed into this thing. So we have things like critical analysis. We have poor rapture, which is you're allowed to criticize sacred texts. It's not the final word. We never speak of final words.

We speak of self-analysis, artman, erection and swaya and things of this nature. And we speak of it's a misunderstanding because no one spoke of this for 30 years. There was a massive Scholarship that happened in the west in Europe from the 18, early 18 hundreds or mid 18 hundreds to early 19 hundreds or on Indian studies, index studies.

And then in India, there was a massive scholarship from early nine, mid 19 hundreds to 1980s. And suddenly from 1990s, the moment I, that's one of my theories, that the moment globalization occurred and there were certain other influences. Obviously it's much more complex than this.

For 30, 20 years we went into this blank state reappeared in 20, early 2010 through through YouTube. It's resurfaced literally, like it's so obvious like before 2010. We don't have the amount of books if you just check Google Trends and if you just see it's just a whole new wave of Indian studies that's coming up right now. Because we weren't raised to speak of these things, but Hinduism allows critical analysis, Hinduism, we have so many variations of everything. We have so many different reminders. We have so many different commentaries on Pba Keita. We have so much like even just ADI Shankar Aria's works.

We he's in itself making commentaries and we allow, we permit Ang Yoga Sutra to be contextualized in the West or p taking the to the west and teaching it in the context of Krishna is Christ in his kh and that we permit that we are, we really encourage that. We love it. We see Parma, the Supreme or whatever wish no Krishna in all forms.

So you see Hindus really being open to this sort of thing. It's just we are not we've forgotten that we are that malleable. We've forgotten that we've, we have all all kinds of systems for all kinds of people. And it doesn't just stick to you have to be this fear that it works with your personal equation, your subjectivity, which is very much grounded in the idea of that every birth chart, every individual person has it their own karma.

So Hindu Hinduism is very much rooted into this idea that you are your own psychospiritual structure. And people say this if something bad happens in someone's life if if a couple is not able to stay together, if a marriage breaks there are definitely biases that came up in a, in 60 seventies, eighties.

But overall, if you see there's a newfound understanding right now of people like understanding especially people who are fully engaged with the materials and not just have been handed down traditionally that this is it, but people, so there's this new way of thinking, new scholarship, and it's a revival of the Hinduism proper

Proper, like as a, as the way, the eternal way.

[00:06:45] Fiona Marques: I'm really inspired to hear that. And, all we've talked about so far this morning is timing, but it feels like a very beautiful time to be having these conversations.

[00:06:55] Archetypes and Avataras

[00:06:55] Fiona Marques: Let's move towards our main topic for today, and we are gonna be talking about Archetypes and we're gonna be talking about Avataras.

Tell us a little bit before we even begin about what an Archetype is.

[00:07:07] Sachin Sharma: Before we touch upon Archetypes, if we have to understand like what are we, so why should one listen to the theory of a Avatars and Archetypes? Why should we get into this in a detailed manner? Why should the listener right now spend some of the precious time and energy on with us, like in this discussion, engaged, using their tuning into this space?

So what happens when we understand the Archetypes, the a Avataras from the context of Jyotisha, is that it, it becomes a journey from this random chaos of these imagistic, emotional urges that are spontaneously arising and drowning one into unconsciousness. It's a journey from this state to a state of this orderly structure. Of these thematic tales, acts. It's like a "Leela", a play. That allows one to derive wisdom. Know one's script, understand one's role in the cosmic play. And come to terms with the fundamental nature of reality. So we dissolve certain resistances towards existence, becoming conscious of these instinctual archetypal themes, these primordial patterns, primordial representations, ultimately breaking free, liberating, getting this sort of psychological moksha, first and foremost, by understanding these themes.

And this has to be assisted with your psychophysical, psycho-spiritual yogic practices. With an understanding of Jyotish. So it's a Jnana Yoga path. And you break free from chaos. You find yourself placed in this space time where you are placed. Regardless of good things happening to you, bad things happening to you. You understand where that's coming from, why the judgment is the way that it is within yourself. 

It's a perfect tool for analytic thought, for meta-analysis, metacognition for Jungian analysis. Because Jungian analysis works a lot with symbols, motifs images and these sort of things. And Jyotish really connects it, like really align, super imposes it and then circum ambulates, does this sort of parikrama, with the psyche. And you see it from different angles. It's really profound that way. 

[00:09:04] Fiona Marques: I love what you're saying there, such it's a bit like. It's just the chaos of all of the inputs that we're capable of receiving as humans, you arrive here and you're just overwhelmed by the senses themselves. What we can take in through the body, into our brain, into our mind. And then there's also the whole emotional environment that one is born into. And then there's the traumas that one might experience and that creates a whole lot of chaos that can be very difficult to find meaning in. 

So what you are suggesting here is that these Archetypes and Avataras give us a filter that helps us to turn down all the chaos that's not important. And see what is the meaning.

[00:09:45] Sachin Sharma: It definitely adds this layer of meaning and it gives us and it's literal, it's not just this would show the ship becomes like a proper theme. Like someone in under the, under a strong influence of let's say Saturn. And when they understand the Archetype way the Archetype associated with Saturn, it really Resonates.

like it works as a fact. So you grasp Jung on a very deep level through Jyotish on a very experiential level. 

[00:10:01] What is an Archetype?

[00:10:01] Fiona Marques: Tell us a little bit before we even begin about what an Archetype is.

[00:10:08] Sachin Sharma: The Oxford Dictionary definition of the word Archetype is "A very typical example of a certain person or thing".

It's a very typical example. That's what it is. And so when we're understanding a Graha and we are understanding it's Archetype, we are just understanding a very typical expression of that Graha. That's the most basic, beginner friendly version of it. 

So Archetypes are not just these instincts and prototypical patterns and primordial images, mapping reality, but they also are capacities. They're formulae to navigate through life.

For example, if someone tunes into that Archetypal theme of a certain planet, you can allow yourself to embrace those themes. And India is really good at it. So if it's a kitchen you'll find pictures of Goddess Anapurna. Which is the goddess of food. You manifest that, you manifest her qualities, you devote yourself to her. If it's for Ayurvedic physicians, it's Tanmantri. For transformative, ferocious form that destroys evil, we have Durga. We have all these different themes of these sacred forms, images and gods.

So India is very good at this, and anyone who gets in touch with this, would feel a sort of a psychological relief from this. And with Jyotish it becomes a practical experiential thing. 

So Archetype, whether it is "Universal" or not, we don't know. Because we don't know much about the cosmic unconscious. We know about the collective unconscious. So we are speaking of this Solar System. So I don't agree with this word "Universal", because universal in the terms of Jyotish means something else. In the Vedic structure of things, Universal is Universal. In the Western way of saying universal, it means everywhere, universally applicable.

We don't know if Archetypes work beyond the Solar System. Probably in a Solar System where let's say eagles or dogs evolved into those that could meditate, those who could realize their own consciousness, the Archetypes would look different than what they look here and depending on their tools.

But the Archetypal theme might be universal. Theme of love might be a universal theme. Theme of the hero's journey. That's an Archetypal theme. 

[00:12:47] What are Archetypal Themes?

[00:12:47] Sachin Sharma: So we need to make a huge distinction between Archetypes and Archetypal themes. And this is so often confused in the West. This sort of grinds my gears that, and it's very much confused by Jung at certain points also. Because Jung says the Archetype of the "wise old man". This is where I beg to differ with Jung and who am I to differ? So I just stick to begging. So I would say that "wise old man" is an Archetypal theme that can be found in different Archetypes, varying in different cultures. You can find these Archetypes. And the Archetypal theme would be the "wise old man". The "wise old man" in and of itself, is not. The hero's journey is an archetypal theme on which Joseph Campbell wrote a book. Which is a profound book. Very beautifully written. But it's not an Archetype. 

[00:13:40] What is an Avatar?

[00:13:40] Sachin Sharma: And then we have the idea of a Avatars. Avatar has a lot of different meanings depending on the tradition that's using it in India. So in Kriya Yoga traditions, Avatar is used in a different context. It depends on who the teacher is. 

An Avatar can be masters who have descended to do some work. Avatars can be these supreme beings being manifested through the Grahas as Parashara tells us in his Sutras who overcome evil, to destroy evil and established dharma. That's the basic purpose. 

But Avatars from a Jyotisha perspective are essentially a very typical example of that Graha. That's what it is for the practical purposes. And Rishi Parashara's 10 Sutras on the Avataras. If you dig into those 10 Sutras, they just make this very clear, what's the point and purpose and how Deities belong to these nine planets and then manifest through these nine planets. Actually seven he doesn't give any of tohu in Tu, but we can figure out that's the point, the essence of the sutra. We can figure out what are ahu like qualities and different deities. What are ktu like qualities? And for example, hoo would be more like but we have, oh, sorry. We have for Ahu, we have varaha Avatar, and for K2 we have matar. My bad, we don't, Brak doesn't give the Dees, he gives the Avatars. So He makes a distinction between Deities and Avatars also. So Avatar is being used in a very particular context. So we are for practical, psychoanalytic work we are changing it a little bit. 

But stra also tells us that, for example, Mars which we can use for an example as an example today, is has Nima. So when we study Naar, we can understand the psychological demeanor of the person during their Mars, Maha and what kind of Mars they have. We'll, I'll give you practical example, but 

Avatar, from an etymological perspective is Ava Tara, which means descent, a divine descent. To come from a higher state of consciousness to a lower state for a certain purpose.

Now, what's super interesting when we look at this idea from the perspective of Jyotisha, is that even though all Avataras have a core purpose of establishing dharma, (which is a very important word, needs to be understood very carefully. It has a very essential meaning "that which upholds" and it has to be understood very clearly. But that's a different topic for now). What's important is that the way that Avatara is being expressed, how that purpose of establishing dharma and destroying evil is fulfilled, is expressed through the Graha. The story of the Avatara is in alignment with the qualities of the Graha.

So Rishi Parashara is touching at a very beautiful thing. It's so profound. Basically Avatars is what the idea of Archetype has been, what the European scholars or the priests of ancient times were trying to get at, and what Jung theorised and built further.

What's interesting about Jung finding out about Archetypes is that he did not find it through India. He found it in his studies and research in schizophrenia. And then he found out that when he's engaging into the personal unconscious of the people he's treating, there were these certain themes that were common.

So then he arrived at the idea of collective unconscious and these primordial images that were appearing within all cultures, regardless of any interaction between the two cultures. And then when he comes to India, then he completely blows his mind. It's an Archetypal world. Like the Indian psyche is essentially living in a mystical, magical world, an outer representation to all the contents of their psyche, all the imaginations, everything is out there. So there's a huge psychological relief that people go through to find structure in their life. Even now, like India is just big on this. 

The point is that when you understand for example, Narasimha is associated with Mars and vain is associated with Jupiter. So when Nasima, you see a fierce wrathful form tearing apart a demon, an not a demon in Asura, and then blessing par Prahlad and disappearing. That's a very Marshall theme.

Like you enter, you protect in a sense, you tear apart the evil, and then you exit. And with Jupiter, you see this brilliant radiant boy who walks towards the ex. They explain his radiance as like a, it's like a Sun had come up, another son had risen, and the B is having a, the ceremony sacred ritual.

And then he sees, and he wants, he get, he's awe inspired by his presence and offers him a gift. And then based skillfully wha to wise words. And then eventually what ramen does is it takes away the, I in mind from Bali. What first with the first two steps he takes. All that was mine. All what was his?

And then with the third step bully, which means sacrifice puts his bu the word bully itself means sacrifice. So these tales are extremely significant. Puts his head down and then ramen steps on his head and destroys his eye. And then there's versions of tail when's taken to higher realms, a version where he's taken to the lower realms and given the presidency of the lower re low, one of the lower realms.

Now, there are versions where he goes up and stays with good things in life or will be reinstated as an Indra in one of the other mans. So there are different versions, but that's very much in alignment with Jupiter's qualities. Narasimha is very much in alignment with Mar's qualities. So it's very, the, these are Archetypes.

These are like proper Archetypes and proper Archetypal themes. And Hinduism is loaded and the tapestry is so rich and it's so intricate, and the stories have subplots, sub subplots, and one person that appears in one story has to be made connection to from another story.

And then you have these moments of joy when you figure out like the lineages and genealogies and stuff. 

So shall we get into the tale briefly of Narasim and then make, let's say, correlations with Mars and try to understand Mars' energy, Mars' purpose in life?

[00:17:59] Fiona Marques: Let's do it.

[00:18:00] Sachin Sharma: Perfect.

[00:18:01] The Tale of Narasimha Avatar

[00:18:01] Sachin Sharma: The key person in Narasimha Avatar's tale is Prahlad. The lineage of Prahlad it says from Brahma came Kashyapa, Kashyapa entity created Hiranyakashipu and Hiranyakashipu gave birth to Prahlad. And then from Prahlad comes Vairochana, and Vairochana comes Bali. So Prahlad is actually the grandfather of Bali and Hiranyakashipu is the great-great-grandfather of Bali. So it's very interesting because the tales are also connected. 

So what happens is that there is this demon who's going crazy basically after his brother has been killed by Varaha Avatar. But that's also connected. There's another Avatar connected. Rahu's Avatar kills Hiranyakashipu's brother. So he's extremely aggrieved and he is wanting revenge from Vishnu. In these tales, Vishnu is considered as the Paramatman. The ultimate. That which cannot be named sort of thing. Beyond time. So he's basically in resistance to reality itself. And he goes into this deep pain state. And he goes into this egomania. So he seeks his revenge for his brother's death. By doing a lot of penance, through these austerities he gains a lot of power, but his power gets centered in his sense of self importance. Ahamkara. 

And then he desires immortality from Brahma for his posterities. And then Brahma he's like, "I can't make you immortal, because even I'm not immortal", which is very significant detail in these tales. He says, "but what I can do is I can give you practical immortality. I'll put these clauses and it's very difficult to navigate through them to actually kill you". 

He cannot be killed inside or outside. By a human or a God or an animal. He cannot be killed by any man -made or God-made weapons. He cannot be killed during the day or the night.

So he basically becomes fully crazy after this. He just starts killing everyone. Starts taking over the worlds and invading everything.

Eventually Hiranyakashipu has a son named Prahlad. He has four sons. One of them is Prahlad. And Prahlad starts to show insight, like spiritual insights. Like he has these, this innate wisdom and he is getting these sort of downloads, wise downloads about reality, about life.

So what happens is he is a Vishnu devotee. It's expressed like that. He worships Vishnu and he's in awe of it. And he knows the nuances and he gets these insights.

This really angers Hiranyakashipu. And so he sends him to an Asura school to learn all of these demonic, let's say Asura things. Which are all about how to enhance your ego and gain power and push your sense of self and your ideas into the world. 

Prahlad joins the school and then there's these details about what happened in the school. All the children start getting influenced by Prahlad, and then the teachers are not able to handle him. And Hiranyakashipu gets really angry and starts to become violent towards him and almost physically abuse him. And Prahlad his devotion is unwavering. "It is what it is. I know it's true. So it's not a matter of belief for me, it's a matter of the heart revelation, I've, I know that it's there, so I don't need I, I can't help it. Even if I want to not believe in it anymore I can't unsee or unrealized what I've realized". 

So one day Hiranyakashipu gets really agitated with Prahlad and it's a very key moment. So his father says, "Where is your Narayan? Where is your Narayana?" Prahlad says "He's everywhere". So his father's like, "Is he there in that pillar now? If he's there why doesn't he come out?" 

Prahlad bows down to the pillar. This is the beauty of Hinduism. And that's why we, everything is sacred for us. There's a, there's all kinds of temples, all kinds of gods for us. And he's "Yes, everywhere I can see him. I can see him inside the pillar." he says.

So the evil king draws a sword out and prounces at Prahlad while shouting. "Let's see if your Narayana is here? Let's see if he comes out of that pillar to rescue you". 

And the pillar splits open, and there's a golden, glaring face of a lion with a human body. Neither man, neither human. Neither created by humans nor Gods.

So the boon that he had gained from Brahma starts to fulfill. 

So the man lion starts to run towards Hiranyakashipu, picks him up, carries him to the threshold of the door. Neither inside nor outside. Places him on his lap. Neither on earth, nor on sky. It was dusk. So neither day nor night. Narasimha tears apart Hiranyakashipu with his nails and teeth. Weapons neither created by humans nor Gods. And there's, that's it. Like he gets to him. Like his own egoity. His own egomania. 

so he comes. He tears him apart. There's just blood all over the place and just Prahlad weeping tears of devotion. 

And then there's a very critical moment, again, critical moment in the plot that no one is able to pacify Narasimha from his anger, but Prahlad. So Prahlad goes to his feet and cries tears of devotion, love, and asks him to calm down and forgive. And then Narasimha calms down. Narasimha blesses Prahlad that "Your lineage is blessed". And then that's why Bali is born. And Prahlad himself is born to Hiranyakashipu, who's an egomaniac.

[00:24:31] Jaya and Vijaya backstory to the Narasimha -Avatar tale

[00:24:31] Sachin Sharma: There's a background story to this, and this is the beauty of Hinduism, that it's all a dilemma. It's all a leela. It's never, this is right that is wrong. It's all rightness and wrongness of things. 

The story is that there were two gatekeepers, Jaya and Vijaya. And a Rishi comes to visit Narayana. And Jaya and Vijaya don't let him in because Narayana or that ultimate power had asked them to not let anyone in. The Rishi gets angry and curses Vijaya and Jaya to be born on earth for seven lifetimes and within in deep pain and this and that.

And then as humans are mortal or something like that, which is considered really bad for those that belong to the higher realms. And then Jaya and Vijaya get really sad. And they ask Paramatman to like figure out, and he says "I can't take back the curse". And that's a common theme in all of Hindu texts that the curses cannot be taken back, but they can be altered. Not the curse itself, but a new boon. Or they can be navigated. So Paramatman says that "You can either be born for seven lives as human beings, or for three lives as extremely evil people. And I will descend. I will descend (Avatar). I will come as an Avatar and take away your life".

They choose to be killed by God and for three lifetimes instead of being incarnated as for seven lifetimes as humans. So I think Jaya and Vijaya, one of the two. One was uh Hiranyakashipu, and the other one was the one that Varaha Avatar of Rahu kills in these tales. Then Ravana was one of them. That was one. He, they incarnate three times and they're killed by different Avatars. And so they, they choose obviously, so I missed that detail that , which I don't know if it's a good deal, but the 

[00:26:18] Fiona Marques: It reminds me of it reminds me of Wings of Desire of Vendas film where there are angels watching over the city of Berlin and they care about all of the citizens of Berlin, and they have to watch all of this suffering. And eventually, almost every angel sees something so tragic that they incarnate they descend and they become human to prevent a particular suffering taking place because they just can't stand by to watch it anymore.

But it really makes you reflect on what it is to be an angel and what it is to be human. Because in an angel, you are not in that world of suffering. You are not getting the impact like the physical manifestation of actions, but you are seeing all the suffering of the humans. And this, it pulls you into the, it pulls you into the drama.

[00:26:18] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. That's an Archetypal theme in, in unconsciously or consciously coming out in that movie. Those are the Archetypal themes That's beautiful that you bring up, because that is a perfect example for an Archetypal theme, and that's why movies are a very good place. Movies, art, music are a very good place to understand Archetypal themes and the collective unconscious which is beautiful.

So that's a perfect example. And yeah, so that's also true because we see this in our lives also. Like the moment we, we have an enlightenment with our own bodies like this. If you do this, if you eat this food, you can sleep better. Either you can just just cherish that feeling and eat your food and do, or you can share it with someone.

Even Buddha says it, he's after your enlightenment, either you can cherish it, enjoy, and you are free, or you can choose to help others. You have two. He says, you have two choices, and there's a sutra there. So I, I don't know where which so does have it which texts have it, but it's there somewhere.

[00:26:18] Fiona Marques: And is one choice considered better than the other or It's 

[00:26:18] Sachin Sharma: No. 

[00:26:18] Fiona Marques: good? Mm-hmm. 

[00:26:18] Sachin Sharma: good. Yeah. Yeah. But in Buddhism, it's pro professed that descending to help others is a better choice. But I think it's part of the entire complexity of time and karma

That it's a matter of calling, it's it in that moment, whatever that moment is. It's not about what I want. It's more like what the universal theme is.

And then you in descend, depending on that need of the hour, what the Dow wants.

sort 

I think there's something that, which is very subtle.

[00:26:18] Fiona Marques: But all of those examples that we just talked about are coming back to that. The "evil" characters in these stories are actually also fulfilling their fate from a previous story, from a previous decision that maybe they had a choice or didn't have a choice, they did an action, and the consequences of that turned into them incarnating in these stories. It's really interesting because it broadens our understanding. 

Like the human mind is so trapped in the lifetime view, isn't it? It's "I was born, this is my life. I'm doing things, and then it's all over and I'm dead. So I don't care what happens after that." And these stories are enticing the mind to imagine what if actually it's a much bigger story that you are a part of, and this is a small couple of pages in your Epic experience?

[00:27:06] Sachin Sharma: Exactly. That's exactly that. That's why we are all about Sakshi Bhaav. Which is state of observance, state of spectatorship. And it requires practice. It's a skill like anything in life. And Buddha was really interesting Avatar because he was the Avatar of Mercury. So he is enlightenment is a skill. Because Mercury's all about learning skills. Isn't that fascinating? That's what was Buddha's purpose. That yeah, he was Mercury's Avatar. And Mercury is just trial and error. So Buddha was going through trials and errors. 

So Parak tells us that there are full Avatars, which are full perma consciousness, which is a Sun Moon, Ramma, Krishna and Varaha, believe it or not, Raho.

That's so fascinating. That blows my mind because they're that way. But, and then it says has a lot of Parma, man, but it's not full Parma man. It has jiva consciousness, which you can see because it's a fish. But maybe one way to make logically understandable, but there might not be any logic to it as such.

We don't really have to have a logic to these things. .

But it, these are very in very interesting tales because all these, it tells us about everything in Hinduism. The philosophical presupposition of Hinduism is liberation moksha. That's the philosophical presupposition. Everything assumes that. The final goal is moksha. Whether it's Ayurveda, vatu any discipline, any shastra.

It's moksha, be it any martial arts, this, that, and it can be physical moksha with physical practices. It can be psychological moksha, and then ultimately spiritual moksha. So in this case, we see so lot. Lost my train of thought there with that moksha tangent 

[00:27:49] Narasimha and the Inner child

[00:27:49] Sachin Sharma: Now how this is a psychoanalytically relevant to us is that this tells us how anger is considered to be a something that shouldn't be there. But anger is a part of your psychospiritual structure, Mars.

And with Narasimha story, we are being told about righteous anger, which is firstly the chosen child ard, innocent child. So Mar's key role is protection of innocence. It's it's not rage. It's not this sort of 

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: tantrum.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: yeah, not a tantrum. It's more like a state of pushing pushback and this sort of energetic wall around knew that this is not permitted and that is part of our system and narc.

And one thing is Narasimha quickly shows up, navigates through the bone fixes and leaves. That's very Marshall Marsh's job is not to stay active all the time. It's like a cheetah. It run, it can run really fast, but it can run really fast for a short duration. But that's the thing that's a's aspect of Mars.

There's a scorpion aspect to Mars, which is more long-term calculative. It, it's more transformative, disciplined

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: Yep. 

And there's that salted Capricorn element of Mars as well, isn't there? That

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: practical.

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: this boon is quite, sounds watertight. When you hear it, you're like you didn't give him a mortality, but you're pretty much guaranteed this guy's not gonna die. And I think Mars in Capricorn is just ingenious with its logic.

What have I got? What can I use? And it can solve any problem. And I think this is also a little bit comes from Scorpio, doesn't it? That. Mars is whatever that obstacle is, even if it's deeply psychological, the Shakti of Mars is going to

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: Yeah,

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: navigate through that. What a gift to 

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: it's beautiful. 

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: Yeah.

The Shakti of Mars.

Yeah.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: Mars itself is it's now one of the names with Mars is Mongol, which means auspicious. So it tells us something about how it's just a fun, a very important energy to have within us. So when, Prahlad 

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: keep 

interrupting. Such, I think this 

true with anger. That's how you started this conversation. The current one we're in that people can feel like anger is undesirable state to be in, 

and yet it is the power that has allowed our ancestors to survive until this point, like why I have d n A here is because of all of the anger, the power that my ancestors had to survive.

The various threats that humans face, 

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: yeah. And just from each other even if two human beings are there, you just need that marshal energy to keep another person's demons at pay. Because whenever demons see a capacity to invade, one, one of the very core things psychology of thi kleptomania is that because I could, I saw loophole.

So that's the thing. And that's why you need to have, it's not to build walls, but to build fences. You can communicate, relate, but there's a fence and there can even be a gate on the fence and you can invite the other person over. But to not have a fence is, can be a problem because they're two different structures, like two different chemicals that may or may not be good for each other.

And building a wall is also bad because it creates total disconnection. It's just the right amount of height. And Mars gives us that 10, that capacity to stay. And an uncultivated Mars is rage, frustration, breaks down not knowing when to stop. There's, it doesn't know what to stand for, and doesn't even know how to stand for something.

It burns out, it applies more force than necessary. And it breaks the thing because it applied too much force, or doesn't apply enough force and is not able to push through, pull it off. So Mars is a very important capacity. Obviously other planets speak to Mars, so it needs to be guided by Jupiter.

It needs other, all the other brahas. A well cultivated Mars is patient, calm, protective, restrained logical surgical, solution oriented, watchful, and knows when to fight and knows when to flee. So if you see a good fighter, they would know when it's not their fight. You would know when, what's their fight, what's not their fight.

They would know when to run away and they would be okay with that. They can be like, oh, it wouldn't like, make them feel less or wouldn't haunt their equal. Yeah. Yeah. I, if I would've stayed, I would've probably not been alive. So it knows when to flee and it knows how to train. It's disciplined uncultivated.

This is a cultivated Mars, and it knows how to remain focused on the agendas of Sun. If the, because Mars is the army general, the Sun's okay we need to build this thing. So a good Mars stays and does it fulfills the mission, it gets the job done. A bad Mars is unable to get the job done. Not a bad or a good, a cultivated and an Uncultivated Mars. So how to take commands from the Sun and without feeling this sort of resistance to the Sun because army generals they can be coup. Mars can have a coup against the Sun and destroy the government. And there's anarchy. It's there's no replacement out the after the coup, you never see a coup workout because there's no other Sun either.

The Mars becomes the Sun, which is a very transformative process can happen. I don't know, maybe it's true, but usually cos lead to no replacement of the government and there's just a fallen state until it's another leader shows up and takes over and stuff.

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: Can I 

share this? Such that, 

in Portugal, it was a dictatorship here in Portugal up to 1974. So that's very recent. Like I was alive in 1974, so that's like in my lifetime. And the revolution actually. Happened at the level of the captains. So it turned out I, I wasn't living here, so I'm being liberal with my, understanding as a foreigner, but that we, we see that leaders get absorbed by power.

And the Sun mythology is really helpful for that. And we covered that in a previous episode, but I, one day, maybe satin and I will also cover that, but it's a weakness, isn't it, that when one is in power, one can get consumed by that and you wanna hold onto it. And this had actually seeped down to that level of the generals, that they were all in cahoots with the leader.

We hold onto what we have. And so this revolution happened at that soldier level, which I think is a great Mars Avatar or a great shares. Something about that maza energy that they just know what's right and wrong. They know what they've been trying to train to do. They know that they're supposed to be protecting the innocent and the meek, and they can begin to see through this power thing that's, diluted that upper level.

And so the revolution happened from the captain level down. They came into the city and within the morning they had achieved their purpose and to, there was some firing of gunshots, but no one was actually. Killed on the day, apart from a couple of people, had heart attacks. There, there were some general deaths that probably happened every day of the week, but there was no nobody was shot on the day.

So it was a very clean, martian thing. Well-planned,

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: very good op. Yeah. Sorry to interrupt, but I just don't wanna lose the points. I'm going with that point right now. That's a very good point about sometimes Sun can get become a tyrant and then you need the rebell of Mars to temper the Sun a little bit.

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: Yep.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: The leader, the president, or the Prime Minister must understand that the Army is ultimately what helps the leader exert its strength and ideas and vision.

That's your energy in your body that helps you exert your will, your vision. But if your energy in your body doesn't work for you, when you have an energetic breakdown, if you drink 15 cups of coffee and you just are vibrating and just buzzing and falling on the floor and sweating your ass off and having almost like a panic attack, then your, you wouldn't be able to fulfill son's vision and you'll need rest and care and stuff like that.

Mars is that Anyway, so Mars becomes this indestructible energy. It, if it's cultivated, it knows when to go fast, when to go slow. It has a capacity to transform, generating enough pressure within itself to work with that internal pressure in churning and move through that uncultivated Mars gets really quits.

It quits it's moody, it's emotional. It changes from day to day. It can feel really disciplined today and not so disciplined five days ago. Mar with the key, with Mars' reason, purpose, which is Jupiter, if you give Mars a proper purpose, an army with a purpose, a army with faith, which is Jupiter, goes a long way.

There have been instances, so many instances where armies with the purpose defeated armies fog bigger than their them.

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: Yeah.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: the creator, I think has some of the biggest examples and even, yeah, so even when he reached and stuff, they were nothing. They were like 10,000 people against a hundred thousand people

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: Yep.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: and they won because they were so driven by this sort of thing.

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: Yeah and even in this current Ukraine conflict, I just, on numbers, it seemed like wow, that conflict will last a week because Russia's obviously got a lot more soldiers, a lot more resources, a lot more military equipment. And that hasn't been the case. Yeah, it's really interesting what you were saying there also though, was making me think about why we say that Mars is debilitated in cancer.

Because what you were talking about that adaptability that cancer has of going with the flow and always changing, which is such a strength, such a great thing to have. And yet for Mars, that doesn't work well.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. It doesn't good. It doesn't work well for a Mars and cancer to work well, you need to really work on the, on stabilizing the bone. The more regulated the person's hormones are, the more regulated the person is on a psychological level, and the more the, their psyche is, the better the Mars will function, but the Mars is actively in a ground which is not stable.

Marsh is looking for stable ground, but it's just waters. It's just like going, it has to constantly what's it called? Swim upwards 

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: against the stream. 

Yeah.

Yeah. And isn't it interesting that Jupiter and Mars swapped their debilitation and exaltation because of you were just talking about how an army that has faith, and Jupiter exalted in cancer. And yet Mars exalted in Capricorn where Jupiter struggles to find its hope.

So it's really fascinating combination between those two signs and those two planets.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Jupiter Exalts for a different reason. Mars exalts for a different reason. But their personal relationship without the Zodiac is a different theme. Why Mars and Jupiter are really, like each other is a different sort of theme. What's interesting, but there's no sort of, I've personally not, I don't find a correlation with Mars' debilitation and Jupiter's exaltation being a certain sign.

It's just a relationship with Jupiter and cancer. That field works out for jut themes a little bit, but.

[00:28:05] Fiona Marques: And we have to remember that what I notice in charts all the time is that people who have Mars in cancer get greater yala, which is a very great blessing, right? Because a yala is what helps us to know when to engage in conflict or not. And when you have it going very well in cancer, at least which battles to, to fight.

However, your approach and tactics, might be challenged by the cancer environment. But I think that of all of the exaltation debilitation, that is a great inverted commerce boon for Mars to have when it is in cancer. At least it gets great.

[00:28:05] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. The, so Ayala helps it in a way that I feel it's with cancer, it's more like because Moon and Mars are not fundamentally enemies, they are friendly towards each other in natural relationships of the planets. I think that's a different sort of a tangent. But what was one of the interesting themes about the Prahlada episode of Narasimha is that Prahlada can also be perceived as the inner child. So showing up for the inner child. At some point there's this righteous anger, which has to protect the innocence of the inner child. And Prahlada is that force and you can see a bad Mars. And this is what's super interesting about arch anthropology, if I may. And is that a bad mar in a, an uncd mar or a mar that is evil?

Let's call an evil mar with certain problems like deep issue. But Mars in and of itself cannot be evil, like more to do with mourn and Sun. But let's say dysfunctional uncd Mars will play out an the Sima theme in a dysfunctional manner. There will be moments that you couldn't enter and protect the innocent within you or someone else. Some Mars can lose Mars. Uncultivated deranged energy of Mars can create perversions, which feed off of taking away other people's innocence. It gets a kick on that. So that's a perverted mar where you like it when someone in innocent, you steal away the innocent. So this is something with to do with shadow work using kit topology and Jyotish

and this is the shadow work domain, and this is extremely important, interesting research. So anyone who wants to engage in this sort of research can definitely get in touch with me on Jung Astrology.com.

And I'm all for any kind of research and studies in integrating analytic psychology, which is Y's school of Thought, Y's Jung established that. And

[00:28:28] Fiona Marques: can I jump in there? Such an, and keeping our, an answer general so that nobody freaks out about the Mars in their chart. An UNC cultivated Mars and the shadow work that you're speaking of, which I find really insightful, that the Mars shadow work is around stealing someone's innocence. Is that uncultivated Mars Do you think that's a legit ata?

Do you think it's Mars in a difficult place in the chart? Do you think it's aspects or conjunctions? And I don't want you to name anyone in any particular example cause we don't want a whole lot of people saying, but I've got Mars in my fourth house and, expected by this. But could you just speak if you have any thoughts about an Uncultivated Mars, would you like to say anything general about that?

[00:28:28] Sachin Sharma: I think yes, aryas badass with Mars can have an effect, but ultimately you can walk on your Sun and Moon. There's something to do with how mo Moon's perceptions with that element. So for example, but yes, the element itself can get distorted. Like for Marist, if it's fire element in your body, then it can have a certain perversion to it.

It there in dais schools, there's a poisoning. Poisoning of the internal fire. There's a Chinese award for it in Mandarin. There's a word for in DAOs alchemy. So you internal alchemy your elements can literally become I'm like absolute like I have no idea about DAOs alchemy, but I'm dabbling a little bit here and there.

But I know a certain very fascinating that certain elements can get perverted. And they use the word perverted for that in, in their language.

[00:28:28] Fiona Marques: Fascinating. 

Okay. 

[00:28:28] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Yeah. So that's, so you have to protect it within yourself also first before, because you, what you give, you have what you don't have, you can't give. It's a metaphysical fact. You can't make another smile if you're not smiling. If you're angry, you cannot make, give happiness. You can give anger, you can give insight, you can defend yourself.

But what you are, you can give. There are these, so icono graphically iconography is also very interesting. All the icons, the, all the images and symbols and myths and motifs that show up in the temples in India around Narasimha, all the images are all either fierce form of Narasimha with his nails digging into Hiranyakashipu or with Prahlad being blessed.

So Mars has these two forces. Mars has this power to protect the innocent and that protection is the blessing. The Prahlad is blessed by Narasimha's protection. And this ferocious form which needs to jump in and protect the situation and then go away. 

An unhealthy expression of Mars would also be you get into an anger state and you don't come out of it. That's a trauma response. So something happened, you got angry, you defended yourself. For example, someone tried to hit you in the parking lot and was being racist. And you didn't defend yourself. You just took there, got hit, and you didn't move, you didn't run, you didn't do anything about it. And a healthy mask can either let it go, move out of the situation is done and it's done.

But if there is lingering thing which stays with you, that cleansing needs to be a psychological, emotional, Lunar process with all these elements. That's a work on the level of the Moon. So Moon is the processing center for all the elements. 

Mars, in and of itself is just an element we need to understand. From an archetypal perspective the images of the Archetypes are presenting themselves in Moon within the landscape of the psyche. The psyche is the Moon. And psychological work is Lunar work. And self, Solar work. It's the rhythm between Sun and Moon. But these elements are in and of itself, unconscious elements. Fire has no consciousness. 

Everything has consciousness in that way, but it's, it cannot meditate. Sun can meditate. You as a as consciousness can meditate. Mars cannot meditate. Mars is just an Archetypal pattern. It's an instinctual reaction. It's an unconscious force. It's a natural force. It's an element. And that element, when it presents itself onto wood, it burns the wood. When the element exerts its self upon the psyche, it presents the psyche with these images. Those images are the archetypal themes and the Archetypes. It presents itself in these Archetypes. 

So whether these are, these aara actually came descended, whether they didn't not in yoic traditions, we have a completely different understanding of the word aara.

These are descended masters, and there's aara and there's in Korea, yoga traditions, and they're different things. Avataras from a psycho-spiritual jyotish perspective are essentially Archetypes. I can argue this all day long with anyone, but that's what it is. 

[00:31:26] Psycho-spiritual symbols in the tale of Narasimha Avatar

[00:31:26] Sachin Sharma: So we have many symbols within the tale. We have Hiranyakashipu which represents power. How power can corrupt if it's grounded in ego. If it's grounded within a selfless, more cultivated state, then power can be used for good things. But when it's in ego state, which is attachment. He was attached to his brother, lost his brother, it pained him. That pain created evil within him. So his energy got anchored into this ego state and led him to go into a state of ignorance / delusion. He gained extraordinary powers through his focus and dedication. So that shows that he came from Maharishi Kashyapa's lineage.

He wasn't just this random guy. He comes from Kashyapa entity's lineage. So he was a Maharishi's son. You were well raised. 

Even it is an instance in this story where after he loses his brother, everyone is grieving and he begins to give a discourse about Atman. But that's what's important here because that's also symbolic, that you can have an intellectual, heart-based understanding of Atman, of consciousness. But ultimately, regardless of him knowing about Atman, he had to fulfill a certain destiny. He had to go into a state of ignorance. So it's not enough. It's beautiful to have that because all the people in his kingdom were actually pacified by his discourse on Atman. His Satsang on Atman on Atma. But it didn't really work for him. He still went into a craze because he had to be killed by Narasimha Avatar and had to play out. So that's a very Sanatanadharma sort of theme. Things have to play themselves out many ways. 

[00:33:19] Fiona Marques: If we look at that, he's actually resolving a previous karma by living one of these three births as a demon. In fact, then the righteous purpose of this demon is to draw forth Vishnu from the pillar.

And how powerful that is. We are still telling this story today. It's like the Christ story of the sacrifice on the cross. Something so symbolically powerful that it opens people's hearts and minds and gives them faith. 

So he had to go in, in fact, he was living his dharma, to be this evil demon. To be just outrageously destructive and unfair was what called Mars to protect the innocent.

And without that then the demonstration of the power of the all present God that is in all life it doesn't become manifest and isn't seen. And we wouldn't be telling this story. I really had this, as I've been speaking to you, I really had this, it really fits with my own life experience that I had a difficult relationship with my mother, very close relationship during childhood.

And then as we've been talking, that it was a very cancer experience, no boundaries. There was just no fences there. And then I took a long break from speaking to my mother. So I built a wall, which was not helpful at all, but was helpful. At least I learned how to make boundaries.

And then beautifully, we were able to reconcile before she passed away. And I had a child and she was able to be a grandmother. And we had this very lovely final chapter, but I was lucky enough to be at her bedside when she passed. And it was very, I was not expecting this, but it was very clear to me that there was energy awaiting her arrival in the next state of where she was going to.

And I was humbled by the potency of the people that had come to escort my mother. So this is just my own impression. I don't know if this is true or not true. This is what was very palpable to me in the experience. It was incredibly humbling that. The vibration, the spiritual lineage of the people that were helping my mother transition.

Yeah. Made me realize that there was a lot of service that my mother had done for me in her decision to incarnate and for the relationship that we had. There was some learning that I needed. It was a revelation. I was not expecting that in any way. And it's a bit like this story that you've shared, that this terrible demon who is terrorizing everyone, is actually fulfilling a purpose that without him, this man lion would not have come into existence. We wouldn't have this great example of Mars.

[00:34:47] Sachin Sharma: That's beautiful. That's a very touching example, also very practical. Yeah that's the thing about it. 

[00:34:47] How to use the tale of Narasimha for Self Analytical work

[00:34:47] Sachin Sharma: To bring it into a psychoanalytic space for self analytic work, understand (1) who the Hiranyakashipu is within your psyche, (2) who the Prahlad is within you, (3) who, how, and when and for what Narasimha will show up. 

There's so much drama, which is these three things. Your inner critic can be your Hiranyakashipu. Your Prahlad can be your creative self. And your Narasimha is this force of this righteous anger to protect the innocent creative force within you, against that inner critic, which blocks you from experiencing your inner child.

That's one way to utilize these tales. And this is not the same with Jupiter, not the same with Saturn. So this is very much peculiar, unique to just Mars.

[00:35:47] Fiona Marques: That's such a powerful tool for people to reflect on. As I've been listening to you today, I've been thinking of that... I always call it the "Victim Triangle". 

[00:35:56] Sachin Sharma: It's called the Kapman's "Drama Triangle". 

[00:35:58] Fiona Marques: A perpetrator, a victim, and a rescuer.

But what you're actually sharing here is that Mars is the victim realizing that they have Shakti, they've got power, and they can defend, protect and as you say, free their relationship with their inner child.

[00:36:22] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. And that's where the yogic metaphysics comes into the processes and the psycho-analytic work to actually work on that Martial energy with the tools that we have in a psychotherapy to work with Mars and engage in a way that Narasimha within you can show up and release you into a creative expression.

And it's it's a little bit of a journey of this process, and it can be indeed very powerful. And especially for those within Marta even any other Dasha. The elements are always functioning regardless of the physical themes to different degrees. But the five elements are always active.

Otherwise you die. Like you, they have to be active until your body, your soul exits the body and your five elements in your body sort off the subtle form, that's a different. Thing. But that's the, My main point is that sci analytic, especially the Jungian approach to the Vedic Archetypes, to the Avatars, to these themes can really take us to a very deep space using the birth chart. And is just not this me tool for prediction. Or just seeing yourself as someone under the influence of these stars and being pushed and pulled around by the forces of time.

You can actively engage with your personal unconscious and understand its relationship to the collective unconscious. Your own birth chart is the personal unconscious and the transit chart is the collective.

[00:37:41] Fiona Marques: Okay. There's a whole other podcast, like you just dropped that in Sachin. Okay. So that's the next one we're catching up about. 

[00:37:48] Atman, Manas and the 5 Elements

[00:37:48] Fiona Marques: Can I delineate something about what I'm hearing in your language? And I wanna make sure that I'm hearing this correctly. What I think I'm hearing is something between the Sun and the Moon as being luminaries, as having a particular state of consciousness or ability to raise consciousness or awareness and the other five planets being elements / being the five elements? Am I, is that what I'm hearing?

[00:38:12] Sachin Sharma: Yeah, they're not conscious.

[00:38:15] Fiona Marques: Okay, so the luminaries, we're saying that the Sun is conscious and that the Moon can host the Sun's consciousness or something like that...

[00:38:22] Sachin Sharma: ...and make it Earthly matter. Otherwise, Sun is not an Earthly matter. Sun and Moon rhythms create us into, turn us and turn Earthly thing. A humanoid experiencing reality and it's mundaneness and its spiritual aspect. The spiritual aspect of reality is the Solar side and the mundane, practical, day-to-day, emotional feeling-centric aspect is the Lunar. Which makes life enjoyable, traumatic, gives it different kinds of flavors. And Sun makes it more about vision and creative energy that you want to build something. And this side which gives you intelligence, divine downloads "Oh, this is the thing! This is the next thing". 

You think you thought it, but it just appeared. If you really look into it and just thought it just popped, pops out. I'm not thinking and speaking right now. It's Sun. It's just me speaking.

[00:39:21] Fiona Marques: Planets are the elements. So you're outlining Mars as being Fire.

[00:39:25] Sachin Sharma: Mars is Fire. Jupiter is Ether, Akash. And Saturn is Air. Mercury is Earth. And Venus is Water. And they are not conscious. Plants are not conscious forces. That is they're not entities that have consciousness. That's misunderstanding. They are very powerful natural forces. They're nature. And they are Prakriti, prakritic. They're natural.

When the psyche engages with these on the psyches level, it experiences them as these imagistic themes. 

There are layers to these planets. There's an elemental layer. There's a layer where there things in your environment like that iron rod is Mars and that copper rod is son. So they're things also, but that's not the le on a psychological level.

We, we, they give us, they present them. And this is what Jung was a genius at. He grasped this idea really well, though he was building on it. And that's why I call my effort with Jungian Astrology as an unfinished dialogue between Jung and Jyotish. It's an unfinished dialogue that needs to be finished and there's a lot that can be dug out of this conversation.

Yun can learn a lot and kin experience enhance and integrate itself in a way, find a different perspective to look at itself. So these present themselves in images and tales so that these tales were given so many, the ancients aren't done dumb. That's our biggest mistake that we've made.

There's a reason that Laz is a child, and Narasimha has been chosen for Mars by Parak. And Parak was born around 2000 BC between 1500 and 3000 bc. So we are talking about a psyche a culture that presented itself that existed 3,500 years ago at least. So we need to contextualize that and see that There's a reason why these symbols are placed within these themes. Why these themes are interrelated, correlated in so many intricate ways. They're pointing us towards psychological facts, which need to be transcended within the Solar System to, for us to realize a higher reality. The, all of these are just themes of this Solar System, are the Solar System where there are five masses and 10 Jupiter.

The Astrology of that and the other psychospiritual structure of that Solar System would look different.

[00:40:50] Fiona Marques: Yep.

[00:40:50] Sachin Sharma: This is local, this space time continu continuum, another space time continuum would look completely different.

[00:40:50] Fiona Marques: Yep. Yep. Alright. And then I think part of what you're sharing with us is that the boon that the demon had that seems so watertight, can be overcome. That's what this story tells us, that there, there's always a way, and Mars is that energy that

truly 

[00:40:50] Sachin Sharma: a good point. That's, yeah that, there's always a way. That's the key with Mars, there's always a solution. A good Mars, a well cultivated Mar realizes that there's a way, there has to be a way, there's gotta be a better way. That's what they say. There's gotta be a better way and there has to be a solution to this.

And a good marsh just doesn't get frustrated and doesn't quit and eventually figures out. And if it doesn't figure out, it just is not still not frustrated. It's just, I couldn't figure it out. 

There has to be a better way.

[00:40:50] Fiona Marques: yeah. But then I'm also being inspired that a, as an Astrologer, sometimes that's our role or the gift that an Astrologer has is that the birth chart map. Can show kind of those conditions, can't they, can't be at this time and that time can't be on this planet or this location can't be on this age group and can't be with this person or that person.

And a client coming to us can feel a little overwhelmed or defeated that the structure of the chart is such that it seems like there's no way through there. But then the advantage of seeing the Astrologer is that the map is laid out and so the Astrologer can use her ingenuity, can use her MAs to have that perspective.

There is a way through this, that's what the Astrologer goes in with. And then can help guide, in co-creation with the client, a pathway through that.

[00:40:50] Sachin Sharma: exactly. That's the thing. It's not, if Astrology feels like a defeatist of philosophy, then the Astrology in and of itself is, doesn't have a philosophy. Astrology is just the astronomy of space time itself. It's just it's the structure of reality. It ha it has no philosophy. It just is, it's just fire will burn the wood.

What you, how can you be in resistance or far or against that? It's not and the structure of Astrology in and of itself allows for change because that's one of the tenets in Hinduism that there's constant ina there's constant movement. We are in constant gocha. The gocha, the transit is all about movement and transition and transformation.

So any astro who says life is a hundred percent faded, Is philosophically misaligned. They, that's why argumentation, proper debate and proper clarity and grounding Joe to shine a proper philosophy is very important because the personal equation which I spoke about in an interview with Ryan Kozak, and there's an, and anyone who hasn't heard that can hear that on YouTube, the personal equation of the Astrologer is really important.

So if if you want a defeatist attitude, if then you subscribe to that kind of Astrologer, if you want this sort of empowerment, because Astrology structure inherently is, there's a eighth house. It, a house for change. There's a period within time when planets go through eighth house and create changes.

It, the free will the code of this Solar System, the coding, that's been it has a builtin function for a transformation enhancement change. And Sun is the free will. Moon is the fate. All habitual, instinctual stuff grounded in hou and ktu and Moon are all things that are faded. The more Lunar we are, the more fate is powerful.

The more, the less control we have. The more Solar we are, the more we are grounded in awareness itself. Or artman or whatever you wanna call it, to whatever degree, not enlightened, spiritual degree, just grounded in your own heart. The more you'll feel there is will, you can will things tomorrow, I'm gonna wake up at six and I'm gonna do this.

But if you have, if you are a Lunar person, you'll say it, and you wouldn't be able to wake up because you're feeling so low and you're feeling drained. You're energetically not okay, and things are not fine and you couldn't sleep until really late because your hormones or circadian rhythms weren't working for you and a Solar person. Good Sun, Moon rhythms are very important and that's why we, a lot of astrological work is a work on the level of Ayurveda. Ayurveda, yoga, Tish, and Vatu all speak to each other, and basic introduction to all four is, was like a basic thing. That's what was taught in the schools back in the day, like thousands of years ago.

You're gonna be alive. You're a consciousness. Let's, and you're in the space time. Let's learn about the space time. You have body and you're gonna fall sick. And there's all these elements and doshas working with you. You need to take care of your health. You need to, you are, you have a space. You need to understand space that's fast too.

Function, SVA two function. And then you need moksha, you need two first bely embodied. So you do these physical arsenal, and once you feel psycho somatically at ease, not once along with that, then you get into yogic things. But this was what was taught with Garnet and with linguistics. And we had panini and we had such genius linguists.

And UR wasn't Python. It isn't Ur, it's I think it's bother Jan's the it was, the s text is from 700 or 800 BC and Pathoras came from 500 bc. So we literally have a sutra, which speaks of the Pathoras serum. The square of two sides is the, is equal to the in the right angle triangle like that.

The whole tum is s So that was, that's what was taught back in the day. And now we are taught We are glorifying evil kings. We call Alexander as the great, there's nothing great about Alexander. There was nothing great about Agba. Agba was a, just a total asshole, if I may. And there's nothing great.

We, we glorify these things. We are taught different things like this, which are not useful. Math is good. I feel math is good. It can be learned. It's a good art and math and stuff is fine.

[00:40:50] Fiona Marques: Sergeant gives permission for all to continue to

[00:40:50] Sachin Sharma: I I, I permit. Yeah. So

that's the thing, 

[00:40:50] Fiona Marques: so let me follow up another habit of Mars or something that goes along with these stories and let me know what you think that when we did the Mars episode, I actually ended up calling it Mars and the marginalized, I think because just noticing how important Mars energy is for people who are marginalized.

That is people who don't have power, right? So whether it's children or women or people of different races, those are the people that are not playing in the game of power as equally and fairly as other people. But part of what's inspiring from that perspective is that Mars has no parents in the various mythology of Mars.

It's not coming from a mother and a father, like in this case, Mars bursts out of a pillar.

[00:40:50] Sachin Sharma: Yeah.

[00:40:50] Fiona Marques: And then Mars is released when he's done his auspicious work. It's time for Mars to, to dissolve retreat, go back and then finding Mars, finding one's place after it has successfully completed the deed. Where does Mars belong after that? And we have all of those experiences in our culture around where do veterans fit in once the, once they've. Participated in a battleground, they've fought on the winning side or the losing side. How do they come back to their city, their town, their village, and be integrated?

And it seems that both the creation of Mars and this after effect of Mars, there's a little bit of the outcast or a little bit of the where do I belong? I don't have parents, so I have to, my identity or my lineage is not established by my bloodline. And then where do I belong after? There are different mythologies aren't there about Mars establishing his place.

What are your thoughts about this part of the Archetype, Mars before and Mars after the event?

[00:40:50] Sachin Sharma: Mars is, there's no Mars after or before there's just Mars and there is no Mars. It's like the outcasts and stuff is more related to Raghu and Raghu is the outcasts. Raghu is, uhk is something that one can get into, but it, the Archetypal theme with Mars primarily the predominant theme is innocence, protection of innocence saving a devote, saving someone who has faith in a and is experientially good in that way, and blessing those that stick to their word and things like that.

Apart from that there is Karthik care as a de of Mars, and that's the second theme that Mars is portrayed again as a seven day old child. Who is deci chosen by the Davis to defeat the yess and he's able to defeat it. And symbol one of the ways to understand this is that there was innocence required to defeat the inner demons require that sort of innocence.

So with Mar there's always a strength of character theme sat satwa, and which is a word used by Parak for Mars satwa. So there's a theme with Mars of Satwa, strength of character, which Perha showed and devotion and protection of for of those who can't protect themselves, that is first and foremost ourself.

So the, if someone feels victimized by a reality itself, reality is Jyotish can bring one to an understanding that reality is what it is, it's fair and square. But Mars, when it's fighting outta battles, it turns into an activist. What do I stand for? What do I stand against outside of myself? Which may or may not be an important theme for a person, but internally it's more about why does this bother me?

Because I may have wasted 500 lifetimes on, on, on issues like this. Ultimately, what's my fight to fight? What would, what's the proper way? If I have to be an activist for Astrology, then what's the right way to do it? So Mars gets disciplined, has to study properly, has to learn Astrology properly, and instead of pleadingly doing Astr activism, the Mars is the activist within us.

Things that make us angry and we stand against them. And but Mars is uncd. Mars is a victim of reality. Ultimately, Mars gives you this feeling of rage and then you need to deliver justice. And that can look like a huge transformation within yourself. It can't be changing reality. When Mars tries to change outside world, it always dies.

Frustrating. It dies with a lot of pent up pain. And so always there's no and that's one of very core parts. Yeah, so our job is to take care of herself. There are billions and trillions of earths and ultimately once you're taking care of your own self in the right way, you'll have enough, you'll have enough strength of character and courage to stand up at the right moment. But if you're just a 15, 16 year old, 20 year old, even 30, 40 year old who's hasn't figured it out, and which is all of us basically gluing me, and then you'd find yourself run into walls after a few months of efforts in certain directions.

And it creates a lot of frustration for Mars because it exerts so much energy, time thinking about topics, getting angry, reading the news, and then it's still has to pay its bills and still within the system. And still reality is what it is.

So metaphysical structure of reality as revealed by Jyotish, one has to really engage with it. It will poke and put pressure on different parts of ourselves, idealistic states that we thought, "Oh, I'm holier than thou". And then there's a certain eclipse, certain transit, and there's a certain mess within your psyche that you don't know where it's coming from. And it's very humbling. And that's part of the shadow work. And Jung was very clear about this, "You don't have ideas. Ideas have you". 

So you have to understand what idea you are possessed by right now, which is triggering your anger. And where's that emotional response coming from. And how to heal that in a way that ultimately makes you come into a better state of being. And then gives you enough strength, courage to help others. 

Mars identity issues are all Lunar issues, Sun issues. Mars is just energy. It comes like a force protects Prahlad, leaves. Krishna is identity related. If you read, understand Krishna, if you understand Rama, it was all about up upholding these ideals and setting these standards for the kingdom. The identity related is all Sun and Moon. Varaha has nothing to do with identity. It's fulfilling a purpose. fulfilling a purpose. Buddha is giving you methods and

[00:42:26] Fiona Marques: So 

if we identify with our role as a warrior after the event, that's when. It's not functioning well because it, that identity doesn't need to exist after the event.

[00:42:26] Sachin Sharma: Maybe you needed to become a warrior. Maybe you maybe many people after a war realize that they have this capacity to defend their country really well. And then there's just even if the war is over, they go into positions of becoming an army general and stuff. So this is where I get, gets complex and this is where we have to understand that we have all the nine half hours active within us. The ultimately all nine Archetypes have to function in the best capacity. We don't want a Nima, which when Prahlad was like the pillar never split open

And Prahlad. Is left, confused and now it is what it is Now. Either I killed you or you go join the demon school and get your, finish your lessons.

And that's how it would not be. That wouldn't be good. 

[00:42:26] Fiona Marques: yep. And it wouldn't be good

If the demon, if the lion man stayed angry forever

as a, as a force for good, as an auspicious, righteous, pet that's not, 

[00:42:26] Sachin Sharma: it has Yeah. It's done. Okay. I wanted, and I, that's why Prahlad then goes in in then Naim. That's the critical part of the tale. That's a good point. Because then Prahlad has tears of devotion and Narasimha calms down. So we actually have five, nine forms of Narasimha. There's one Yoga Narasimha, which teach teaches yoga.

We have 9, 5, 6, 7 different forms of narc, ferocious Naim. We have the different ones. I was make taking notes on this which is fierce aspect of Narasimha Joah flames, Narasimha pro Narasimha, angry guhan, Narasimha concealed Narasimha. So this would be more scorpion. These are in inner warriors people who are on a spiritual war.

That's the Scorpio aspect of things.

peaceful teaching yoga. There's a peaceful Narasimha. So you can see people with really strong Mars influences being really peaceful. Why is that the case? Because they don't pick random battles

[00:42:26] Fiona Marques: no, and they're our personal trainers who are helping us with our daily. Exercise regime to get fit or whatever. So they're using all of those discipline and auspicious goals, but in a 

[00:42:26] Sachin Sharma: That's a perfect one. That's a very good one that you said. Yeah. The personal trainers that Yeah. Yeah. 

That's so good. I really like that. Yeah. Yoga and that's, and Thekla, which was blessing, Prahlada,

[00:42:26] Fiona Marques: Yeah.

[00:42:26] Sachin Sharma: pkk that blesses the inner child. 

So we have all these different aspects, and this is where the iconography gets really interesting. The Sanskrit word for iconography is I think is Chitrasutra. Chitra means images and sutra means sutra. So a string of images, iconography. 

It's very beautiful.

[00:42:27] Fiona Marques: It is very beautiful. And are you implying that it is the Moon that receives those images? Is that what you were saying before?

[00:42:32] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Yeah. Me as Sachin Sharma is thinking about Narasimha. And when I imagine this images that are coming up with Narasimha, because I've seen these images is happening within my Moon. 

So only the Moon can experience stuff. And Sun is the light. Moon is running on Sun's borrowed light.

There are sutras in the Rigveda about "The one that uses the borrowed light of the Atman", something like that.

They're referring to the Moon or the Soma, the one that is on the borrowed light.

[00:43:05] Fiona Marques: Yeah.

[00:43:05] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. So we really figured out the Artman, Manas dynamics are really well.

[00:43:05] Conclusion and summarising Archetypes, Themes and Avatars

[00:43:05] Fiona Marques: Good. Alright, and taking us right back to the very first question, do you want to articulate Archetype, archetypal themes and Avatar? Do you wanna try and distinguish those? Are they on a continuum? Are they in a hierarchy?

[00:43:23] Sachin Sharma: Archetypes is Narasimha. Archetypal theme is protection of the innocent. Which can be found in other Archetypes also. Christ was also probably protecting innocent. That's a theme that can arise in different ways and with different Archetypes. And the Avatar is the idea that Paramatman descends through the expression of one of the Grahas depending on which energy is imbalanced within the Solar System.

So if there is lack of understanding of spiritual practices, then Buddha has to come to reinstate the methods. So Buddha didn't come up with new stuff. He did a meta-analysis, which is Mercury and organized all the knowledge. Took out what's useful. Removed what's useless. Created lists, Eightfold Path, Four Noble Truths. All these lists. Which is all Mercurial themes. And he is like, "Here's the thing, this is the process formula. It's come from my trial and error. Follow this formula, and you'll get to a better place than where you are". Patanjali is the same way. So you can say Patanjali is also is a Mercury's Avatar.

So this is how we can identify bat Avatars. Also, Buddha is not the only one you can see Narasimha different Avatars, which are like Narasimha. DOK is a very Narasimha theme, a feminine aspect of Narasimha not of Narasimha, but a feminine expression. A ferocious female traditions Avatars are all female, are all feminine Avatars, but they're, you can map them onto the planets.

So Avatar is this idea that Paramatman, Naryana, Vishnu whoever is manifesting through one of the Grahas to fulfill a certain purpose or balance out the energies within the collective unconscious.

[00:44:58] Fiona Marques: And so then are the planets, are they Archetypes?

[00:45:05] Sachin Sharma: The planets have Archetypes. Planets are energies. They are elements. This idea in Archetypal Astrology that planets are Archetypes is not true. Pla Archetype, this is just tan sutras from the entire discourse on Gras tan sutras were devoted to aara, archi arche themes and Archetypes. So the difference between Jung Astrology or Jung Jyotish, especially Jung Jyotish and Archetypal Astrology, The key differences that Archetypal Astrology sees the planets as Archetypes and grounds all of its theories in Mars Archetype. And it's Pluto Archetype, which makes no sense because Pluto was named Pluto by an 11 year old girl in the 17, 18 hundreds.

So how do you know that Pluto is manifesting in the same Archetypal theme of the Pluto the myth of Pluto? So it makes, I don't know how the Western Astrologers try to make sense of this. I've beat my head around this a lot for many years. It makes no sense to me.

So in Jungian Jyotish, Avataras and Archetypes are a part of the system of the planets.

So planets are also expressed as the kingdom. They're also expressed as grains, weathers different different parts of time. . As as Elements, Panchamahabhutas, which is a very critical system ,with Gunas. There's Tamasic planets, Sattvic planets and Rajasic planets and stuff like that. So all these things are depicted as different themes.

For psychoanalytic work, the Avatara theme becomes really important. But Graha is not an Archetype. It's not an Avatar. An Avatara is being birthed through a Graha. It's expressing Graha-ness of that Graha. The qualities and characteristics of that Graha.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Okay.

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: This is a huge mistake that people o of union Astrology background or people using Archetype theory of Archetypes in this context is a oh a, it's an Archetype. Mars Archetype. It's a gra that which seizes. Gaja means that which seizes, it just means seizes. 

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Yep. 

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: possess what? Or just to finish that one.

Possesses. Possess what? Possess the Sun. So what is aha? Po? So Sun is not really a guha.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Yeah.

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Sun is a guha because Sun possesses other planets also. So for other planets, for Moon, other planet's, Sun can be like a gra but Caesar, but Sun is Sun. It's consciousness

liberation. Moksha from what off what? Liberation off the Sun from the gra system, from the Solar System. Liberation of the self, from the Solar System is what we are seeking to do in yoga.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Yep. So in some ways what we think of as the Sun or the Moon is actually also a an Avatar or an Archetype seized by the energy. Of, is that what you're saying? That it's not the Sun, the planet that is also a representation of this archetypal energy.

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: The Sun can be understood from a, on a psycho-spiritual psychological level through the Archetype of the Sun, which is ram. So Sun as the role, the goal, the demeanor, the expression of the Sun is ram and, oh the work the the first section. The C of Ram and the , which is post-war of post killing Ravana is written later on.

It's not real. So all that stuff that was exiled and love and was born is, it's not a real ramina. Real ramina ends with him living with cita peacefully and that whole thing, and which really gets fi, the feminists fired up about cita being exiled this way and Rama Ram Rama not seeing cita as pure and this, and that is not true.

It's written later on. It's a different sanscript. It's written in a different there's scholarly reasons why it's not true, but it's a consensus amongst unanimously agreed upon thing that it's not remain proper.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Okay.

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: So Sun is actually very good. It's very noble, idealistic, and sac self-sacrificial as themes with drama.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: All right. I'm gonna try then ask this question again, but I think language really gets in the way here. Can we go back to the theme of being liberated from what

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Yeah, that's a good one.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: And try to ask this question with words. Talk to me more about being liberated from what? There you go. See, I didn't have enough to ask the question. Just talk to me more about that being liberated from what

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: So liberated from the, from the

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Because the gras is seizing our pure consciousness.

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: It's like you were looking at the pillow and it's my pillow to the point, if someone hits the pillow, you feel hurt. So your Sun is radiating its light out onto the pillow and your Moon became attached to the pillow. And now if someone sets the pillow on fire, you are getting disturbed to the point of losing yourself sense of self.

So getting liberated from that thing that, but it's an actual experience. The self-realization is realization of you at the center of the Solar System. But the journey it creates a which is cleansing of the five elements, which is a very clearly defined practice in Davi alchemy which is also very Ayurvedic practice.

But the knowledge is lost, but in various systems of yoga and it's very clear still. Of the lineage is still very pure. It's very difficult to find, but it's very pure and clear lineage. The texts can be found very easily online and the books are not that expensive and you can, but the practice is life changing and difficult.

Korea yoga is one of them. What Orion teaches so Korea yoga is very transformative that way. It works with the element and liberates you into your sense of self. That self realization, which is artman anubha art people are those who have experienced the self as a self. So you feel liberated from the Solar System and its pressures have a huge say on all of this.

And even after liberation, Rahu, K2 themes can still play out as far as I could've could, can make up from all the things that I've read and gathered. Have I experienced all of this? I need to clearly say it. No. Do I have an insight? Yes. Can I make sense of these things? Yes, but that's as good as me being like here which is giving a discourse on the artman without then going on a, going a going on a thing with wish new and like trying to kill everyone and take everything over.

and then, The journey begins then the spiritual journey begins after self realization.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: We're on a long journey session. So one of the images that I'm getting from what you're saying there is that being, identifying ourselves with planet Earth, which we are made of earth and when we look out on the planets and the planetary paths, all those orbital paths seem quite crooked and to the layperson, a little difficult to understand.

Whereas if we were to identify ourselves with the Sun, where everything is in its place, from the Sun's perspective, the Solar System makes complete sense and nobody's damaging anybody. Everything's all in the right place. Is that a little bit freeing ourselves from the

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Yeah. That's a, it's a change of perspective a little bit, but it's difficult because Moon has like really intense feelings towards things and ideas because of its conditioning. Like I can say something that you truly believe in and it'll bother you for a week. And that's the thing. So I, you can really say something to me, which I really am, which is close to my heart. That's a Lunar theme, and then it'll, it can literally make me physically sick. So when yourself becomes self realized, when you clean the psycho physical, psycho images, stick contents which is all these spontaneously rising images, feelings, memories in your psyche when you sit for meditation, when you clean yourself off that and you constantly clean clean, and you've come to a settler, it's just cleaning the slate.

It's just cleaning the window to the point that Sun can shine through as just Moon becomes so calm that when you look into the lake of the Moon, you realize it's the Sun was looking into the Sun can see its own reflection and realize itself. Right now, Sun is looking at the lake, but the lake has so much movement that the Sun doesn't reali cannot see itself.

It can just see splintered orbs of light within the lake and just identifying within, trying to figure it out. And then there are these objects of shadows and which come out from the bottom of the lake, which is hou in and pull you down. And then you use these five elements to figure out life as you're pushed and pull, you try to use your Venus Mercury.

Right now I'm trying to reuse Mercury properly. I'm hoping my internet works. I'm hoping my mic is working. I'm hoping the right words are found. I'm able to articulate. I'm trying to make sense of things. I'm using etymology philosophy, this, that then my Jupiter is working. All these plan, all these plans are working at all times.

And just the fact that we are doing a long conversation, it's just how much Saturn you have and you to go on without feeling drained. And with Mars, you're trying to stay like energized. We, using all our five capacities in different wearing ways and certain que destinies being fulfilled through our alignment.

Where my K2 is feeling fulfilled by being able to do what it needs to do in Mira, who is entering this domain of, oh, I am doing an interview, which freaks me out a little bit, but I'm like, yeah, it's good. Like I'm trying to overcome these fears since the beginning, since I've been talking to you since the very first episode of or we did on your YouTube channel and then with your own brow.

Okay, you're working on your own things. So we have these things and then we have Moon, which is wire, things that we are experiencing day-to day things. And then we have a Sun, which we don't pay attention to at all. That's yoga. That's where we need to figure out not not physical yoga, but sitting still yoga. Stealing the mind, stilling the Moon. Yoga.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Delicious. Thank you, Sachin. We have so covered some territory today. As you were saying, our Saturns are perhaps getting towards the ends of their attention and our listeners as well. Thank you so much for sharing your insights, your research, your passions. I've really gained a lot. I think it's something I'm gonna keep digesting for many days after our conversation.

Thank you for being here with us.

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Thank you so much. It was you, your line of questioning and your, this curiosity and your own understanding and insights of Astrology just add so much. It brings out the best in me and it's just such a good loop, feedback loop between you and that perfect floor. Thank you so much for doing this, for making this effort.

Thank you.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: You're welcome, Sachin. Lovely. Thanks also everyone for listening, and I look forward to the next time that we have such an Sharma. Join us on the Vedic Astrology podcast. Bye everybody. Yay. All right. But I'm not gonna let you go right now. So breathe. But I think we need to do a little introduction for a second episode. Outro

for a second. For a first episode, because I think we've got, I don't even know, I have my glasses on, but I think it's two and a half hours, something

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: yeah. Yeah. 

More than three hours almost.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Exactly. So we've probably got two episodes, so we need to do those two. And then I just wanna add in the finish to the Portuguese revolution story in case I wanna add that into the. So we've got three more things to do. You have you still got that?

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Definitely. Let's do it. Let's do it. I love it.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Okay, good. All right. Okay. So I'm gonna do the intro first. Hello everyone. Welcome to the Vene Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marks. I am joined once again today by my friend and colleague, satin Sharma. Hi Satin. Can you say hello to everyone for me?

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Hello. Thank you for having me again.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Satin, I've invited you back because we have so much to speak about in this episode about Archetypes, Avatars, and the planetary energies that it just couldn't fit all in one episode. So shall we dive right back into our discussion?

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Definitely. It's so vast. It's endless. It's beautiful.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Great. Okay. So let's call that an intro and hopefully that will go with wherever it is that I cut, whatever I

do. Okay. And so then we probably need an outro from the first episode. So I think, I don't know where that will be. So now I'm gonna do an outro with you, which I don't quite know what I'm gonna say, but I'm sure my Mars will come up with something at the moment when I need it.

[00:46:18] Sachin Sharma: Perfect. Let's go.

[00:46:18] Fiona Marques: Sachin, I know that we have barely scratched the surface of what it is that we want to talk about, even though we have covered all this territory already. So can I ask you to join me again on another episode to continue our exploration? Would you come back and continue this conversation with me later?

[00:46:39] Sachin Sharma: Anytime. I love it. Absolutely love it. Thank you so much for all of this for doing this, for all the questions and insights and sharing your insights. It's beautiful. There's a lot to digest. We've covered so much territory, as you said, and beautiful. I'd love to be back.

[00:46:48] Fiona Marques: Great. And in the meantime, Sachin, can you just remind people in between these episodes, if they want to get in touch with you or hear more about these themes, can you share that website again?

[00:46:58] Sachin Sharma: My main website is www.searchinsachin.com, s e a r c h s a c h i n "search in Sachin". And the Jungian Astrology website where I'm working on Jungian Jyotish and all the themes that we've spoken about today is jungianastrology.com.

I'd love to have you there. Yeah. Please visit. Yeah.

[00:47:25] Fiona Marques: Yeah. Good. All right. So everybody listening, don't worry, we're gonna be back. In the meantime, go check out Sachin's website and interact there. And that just leaves me with wishing you a lovely day, Sachin, and see you next time we get together.

[00:47:40] Sachin Sharma: Thank you.

[00:47:41] Fiona Marques: Thanks everyone. Bye.

Good. 

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: Amazing. Perfect. Beautiful.

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: Beautiful. All right. And then satin, I just wanted to share with you the end of the story around the Portuguese revolution. So this dictatorship was eventually toppled by the captains. So they're called the cap, which happened in April and it was their revolution. They executed it, like I say, very effectively, and then of course, in a good Martian way, they handed back power to.

To the people or to the leadership. And there was a time it was quite turbulent, so it took time to settle into a democracy. After that, there were many elections and it took a while for that maturity to come to know how to manage a country democratically after such a long dictatorship. And before that a monarchy.

But what I also wanted to point out was that I think that demonstrates that Martian quality, that when my job is done, I step back. And that's exactly what they did. They did not have any plans. They were not operating to install a particular leader. They were just operating for the righteous purpose of protecting the week.

But what I wanted to point out was that after this event, the main captain was struggled to find that role in life in Portugal. And it has some of this theme of the way that we hero worship warriors. But then after the battle is done, what does one do with that hero worship? And this person, I believe, did not wanna get drawn back into politics in any way.

And that was seen as, not good. And his reputation was tarnished. And he went through a period of time where he was really ostracized or. Not, Venerated. And now as time moves on, some 50 years later, actually his star is really rising and he's seen for the good deeds that he did do.

But I think this is an interesting thing, isn't it? Then transition of Mars from action to repose.

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Yeah, that's we see that like when wars finish, army Generals are just uselessly sitting around. Playing cards over drinking and there's a war, and everyone suddenly even if they're unfit, they can let get a lot done. That's a very good point. That's one. And then you need Jupiter, that, that realignment of purpose, that sort of opening up the path.

So

One of the interesting things could be interaction of a Jupiter vain and Narasimha

but in Narasimha theme, we don't see, like after Narasimha leaves, we don't see Narasimha being sad and purposeless. Okay, there's no Prahlad. So with that Archetypal theme we don't see. But yeah, in an of itself as a Marshall theme that's a very good point and a very good example.

You give that, yes, after wars. Now I understand what you meant by post-war, like post episode and pre episode. Like I understand what it means that Mars, when it's doesn't have anything to fight for, it starts to die off instead of like really loses its fire. So fire element is weak in the body.

You, you, your hunger goes away. You start feeling, you can start having water retention or start losing a lot of weight and you need that element to come back. So when people feel hungrier, they have, they're also hungry for life. And if you, when you drink coffee, you become like this marshal opinionated marshals or opinions that we really feel strongly about.

Mars is an important thing. It's important to be the right activist, good activist, but it's just that Mars is not a pacifist. Mars is active, but the war can be internal or external or both depending on the balance. And for that, you need that guided internal wisdom. That's a

Yeah,

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: Yeah. I'm thinking about how we hero worship. That these people do heroic deeds and we as a society put them then up on a pedestal. But that's not a place that Mars ever wants to be.

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Again, that's true.

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: And then you get lots of problem with fallen heroes, right? The people who did do a great deed in that action in the battle, and then post the battle, we put them on a pedestal. And as you say it's their, they're almost debilitated then because they've got no enemy, they've got nothing to do.

We see them at their worst, perhaps indulging in something that's not good for their body, like drinking or whatever it is, without a purpose. And then we question our heroes.

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. Like you, you see these US Marines who are entrepreneurs now with really good companies or like motivational speakers and stuff. They, there's no walk. They're trained. They, if they're called for duty, they will go, but they're not just sitting around. That's a good expression of Mars. Mars can waver.

So that's where the principles and methods of Jyotish make the Archetypes. Like a theme. Like why did this person in their exalted Mars for, in their Mars, Tasha did so much in the war and after Mars, they started their after Mars comes af in their . Suddenly they were there was identity crises because they have Sahu or Moon Raghu conjunction of some sort in a certain placement, and they're like trying to figure out who they are or they're trying to manifest a new person, mother masses at odds from all the P T S D from the war.

And that's when Moon needs to be worked at.

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. It's, you've just blown my mind that Raho Dasha comes after Maha. That's if we put our heroes on pedestals, the next thing we're gonna see is them going through the, their most lost period of, 

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: yeah.

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: yeah. 

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. But hoo is not necessarily always lost, but yeah. But yes, like definitely it, it gives you an opportunity for ex a new exploration and some seafarers really find new, discover new lands and some ships sink, and then they're given another chance.

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: Good. Let's leave that there. Thank you so much Sachin. Thanks for going 

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: Thank you. Thank you. No. I'm glad. I love your energy. I'm glad you could like, quickly get it done within 10, 15 minutes and Very good. Very nice. Very inspiring.

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: Oh, now I have to say goodbye to you. You are gonna go try to sleep.

[00:47:44] Sachin Sharma: Yeah. I'm gonna go eat. I'm really hungry. Yeah. I'm gonna go eat, but I, let's continue and let's get deeper into it. If you want to.

[00:47:44] Fiona Marques: Oh my goodness, there's so much. So I would like this to be my next episode. So I'm gonna start editing it this week coming up because I just published the Mars Mythology episode last week or whatever. So it just makes sense to go straight to this. So I will edit it and I'm gonna stop recording cause I don't need this bill.