Who Am I? The role of Jupiter, Mercury, Tara & the Moon in identity, love, self acceptance and A Restless Traveller

Who Am I? The role of Jupiter, Mercury, Tara & the Moon in identity, love, self acceptance and A Restless Traveller

José Marques: [00:00:00]

Welcome and Introductions

Fiona Marques: Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Vedic Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marques, and as I'm recording this episode today, Mercury and Jupiter are coming together for a conjunction in just a few days time in Gemini. So it's the perfect setting to explore these two planets that both relate to our intellect.

Mercury, which is known as Budha in Vedic Astrology is our worldly intelligence. It's has all of these analytical skills and reasoning and communication associated with Mercury. It's clever and quick thinking and quick witted, but Jupiter is also a planet associated with the intellect. In Sanskrit it's called Guru, the remover of darkness. And it's linked to our higher intelligence, our faith, our trust, our philosophies and [00:01:00] traditions. And Jupiter helps us to rediscover the truth that is deeply inside of ourselves that we forget about because we're so distracted by the busyness of daily life and all of the data and distractions.

So who better to join me to discuss these two planets than José Marques? My husband and the owner of a birth chart that has Jupiter in Gemini. And not only that, he has Mercury in Sagittarius, so it's a Parivartana Yoga or a mutual exchange of planetary energies, and that's why I thought it was a great time to bring José on to help us understand these two intellectual planets.

Welcome José.

José Marques: Thank you. Nice to be here on your podcast.

Fiona Marques: Now, I haven't just invited Zé on because of his Mercury and Jupiter placements. I don't know if this has happened to you, but since I [00:02:00] have been dabbling in Astrology, I find myself, whenever I watch biography or listen to a biography or read a biography, I'm constantly creating, in my mind a potential birth chart for whoever the story is about.

 As I'm listening to the biography, whatever anecdote or event, I begin creating some kind of chart placements. And Zé has recently published his autobiography or a part of his autobiography, and it's called "A Restless Traveller". So I am in a unique position to finally get some answers from a subject of one of these biographies about their actual planetary placements.

And for all of those Vedic Astrologers listening along, you might have already picked some of these placements in talking about Jupiter and Mercury. So to help us out with that Zé, can you tell us about the full title of your book and what is the context of [00:03:00] this book?

José Marques: Yes. The full title is "A Restless Traveller Reflections on my Eurail Adventure in 1977". So it's really going back to my travel adventure when I was 23 years old when I went from Australia to Europe. I think I wanted to go back to Portugal where I was born and revisit Portugal and revisit my family there. But also I was very keen to test myself out, traveling by myself. My brother Álvaro, who had already been to Europe with a friend about a year before that. And I was quite excited by the idea, going on an adventure myself, by myself. To discover the world, and to reconnect with my roots in Portugal.

Fiona Marques: See already, that just builds so much Astrology for me, and I'm lucky enough to have you here to ask some more questions about it and to share a little bit about what I know about your chart because José is a Gemini Ascendant, and Gemini is the third [00:04:00] zodiac sign. So it's associated with all of those courageous and adventurous skills of the number 3. So it's really interesting that you put the context around, wanting to test yourself out. I think that's a real number 3 kind of energy. And it's also interesting that you mentioned your younger brother had already been, because for Gemini Ascendants, the Sun it rules the 3rd House of younger siblings and our younger siblings and our friends / peers can be sources of inspiration for Gemini Ascendant. So just really interesting that even in your introduction, those elements of your chart came out.

But one of the things to, to grab a hold of in terms of the Astrology, something quite striking about the chart as we already mentioned, is that

Parivartana Yoga - Mercury, Jupiter, 1st, 7th, Gemini, Sagittarius

Fiona Marques: for a Gemini Ascendant we've got, in this case, Jupiter on the 1st House, and we have Mercury on the 7th House. We have this [00:05:00] exchange between these two planets of Jupiter and Mercury. And the 1st House is all about the self and our life path, our journey through life and our personality. And the 7th House is the furthest away at the time when we are born. In fact, it's the Rasi or the Zodiac sign that's setting in the western horizon at the time of our birth.

So these two houses, the 1st and the 7th share our life path, something about the self, and they link it because of the exchange that's happened in this birth chart, they link it with a far away place and a journey to discover the self through travel and through being a long way from home.

So does that resonate with your life story, what's been your relationship with the place that you were born? And have you traveled far away from that?

José Marques: Yes. Initially [00:06:00] my family traveled when we moved to France. That was in the end of 1966. We traveled to France, I think, to get away really from living under, a long time dictatorship in Portugal. So for political and economic reasons, my father moved us to France. And, even for me at that time, the circumstances were, we couldn't tell anyone that we were leaving. It was very strange, a little bit strange for me, all that experience. Butas a kid, as a 12-year-old, it felt like an adventure. We even had a car accident, on the way to Lisbon. Of course that was a bit scary, but when we got on the train two days later, I was like, "Yay, we are going somewhere new, somewhere different!". I was very excited about it.

And , I enjoyed living in France. We were only there for 10 or 11 months, and then we were on the move again. And once more, I was about, pretty excited about the idea. It was an adventure. And and here we were [00:07:00] now, on a four propeller airplane, going to Australia. It was just so far away. But, I was just thinking "We're going somewhere else. I'm open to it". So yes, you couldn't get further away from Portugal, maybe New Zealand's further than Australia, but not by much. 

Fiona Marques: I think the other thing was that Australia was not only far away in geography, but it was also far away in terms of culture and language. I could not speak a word of English before I went to Australia. I went straight into school in first year of high school in Australia. So my first year of school I was 13. I couldn't speak a word of English. Again, it was another adventure, learning a new language without special classes.

What you're sharing there about that sense of adventure, I think is a great expression of Mercury. That of all of the planets, Mercury is the planet that gives us the energy to try options. That's the role of Mercury, [00:08:00] is to be open to new opportunities, new things to do and in, in a very nonjudgmental way, just experience them. And we're lucky as humans to have Mercury. And here you were as a Mercury ascendant, able to call on that optimism and it's like an undefeatable sense of adventure.

But for Gemini Ascendants, Mercury rules, not just the self, but it rules the 4th House of the home as well. So we see how your home also changed a lot. And you've described France and Australia, but even as a young child it turns out that you moved a lot just within Portugal.

José Marques: Oh, yes, we did. Yes, due to the circumstances. So I was born in Lisbon at a time when my father was involved in political activity during the time of of repressive dictatorship of António [00:09:00] Salazar. A dictatorship that lasted for 48 years. At the end of which in 1974, there was a revolution. And, we now have a Republic or a democracy in Portugal. But, at the time when I was born at the end of 1953, my father was a member of the underground Communist Party in Portugal. And, on the very day that I was born my father was nowhere to be found by the police and he was not as I understand with my mother, he was running or hiding from the secret police. So it was a strange time to be born under those particular circumstances. 

Fiona Marques: And then my father became, in Portugal they called it an illegal. Which means that he was operating not under his known name, he was operating in a clandestine way as a member of the Communist Party. Not using his real name, constantly moving addresses to try and avoid the police and carry [00:10:00] out his activities for the party. Because of that the Party sent my father to Porto, in the north of Portugal.And then mynext brother Álvaro was born in Porto about a year and a half later. And then, we were there for a little while and then the Party again, moved us back to Lisbon. And then eventually my father left political activity 1957. And then we moved to the south of Portugal to the Algarve.And at that time, my younger brother, António was born. 

So these three sons are born one each in the regional areas.

José Marques: We see a lot of disruption that

Fiona Marques: 1st Lord and the 4th Lord. So the self and the home and also the mother, they're all in the 7th House. This, " being far away from where I started" is a theme that is really strong in the chart.

And then for Gemini Ascendants and also Virgo Ascendants and to some extent Sagittarius and Pisces Ascendants, we find that these planets, Jupiter and [00:11:00] Mercury, the ones we're speaking about, also connect us to our parents.

So we, we mentioned for yourself a Gemini Ascendant that Mercury is related to the mother. And Jupiter is related to the father. Those planets are both very strong in your chart for the reasons we've talked about already. But also it brings in how important your parents are in the shaping of your story. And we might explore that a little bit as we go.

But I wanted to pick up on this undefeatable sense of adventure from Mercury. And as you said, arriving in Australia, not speaking the language. And Mercury in a way is connected to language. It's all about communication and it's about words. It can be about word games and the quick wit that Mercury can have, but it can also be a real appreciation for language and your skill of picking up English on the run in high school. So I was thinking about all of this sense of adventure and just [00:12:00] giving everything a go in a positive way. Is there a passage from the book that comes to mind? 

José Marques: Okay. So this is, when we left France.

"So in October, 1967 and after only 10 months in France, we moved to Australia under that country's assisted migration plan. It was a memorable voyage for its length. It took several days on a large four propeller airliner. As the plane flew over the mainly deserted landscape of Northern Australia, I asked myself where all the sheep were. As my limited research had taught me to expect this animal in large numbers. Later I learned that this part of Australia was rather more populated by cattle and by the various indigenous peoples living in their communities".

 I think it was late in the day when we arrived. And I had no idea where we were going, it was like, "Okay, we've landed somewhere. We've just crossed this immense emptiness of [00:13:00] land where I expected to see sheep, but I didn't see any sheep or really anything else". And I remember being shepherded onto a bus. We were put in a bus to go somewhere. Again, of course I had no idea where we were going. I they gave us a packed lunch. So I was handed a packed lunch, which was to me what is this? I'd never seen a packed, it was like something to eat, in a drink, something in a plastic container or something like that. I, and I opened the container. I guess I must have been hungry at the time and there was this kind of triangular shaped sandwiches. And I'm like, "Oh, I've never eaten, a triangular shaped sandwich. This strange". And then I took a bite and it was this disgusting thing. I immediately put it aside. I was like, "Ugh, I can't eat this!" So I just ate the apple and drank the juice. I think it was something like that. But, that the "disgusting" thing was Vegemite, it was a Vegemite sandwich, which is very common in Australia, but I'd never eaten [00:14:00] Vegemite, and I thought it was disgusting. It took me several years before I learned then to appreciate the taste of Vegemite.

Fiona Marques: Yeah, it certainly is an acquired taste. I think it does help to have been born into Vegemite eating. 

 When we have this 1-7 exchange we're going to be thrown over to the other side of the world. So all of this is really coming from this title, "The Restless Traveller" because of this nature of the 1 in the 7 and of Jupiter and Mercury. They can give us a restlessness because Jupiter and Mercury have very different approaches to life which we were talking about in the beginning, that Mercury perhaps is a little bit more interested in worldly facts and organizing things, and understanding the detail of everything. And Jupiter has perhaps got that higher sense of intellect and interconnectedness of everything, a sense of tradition and faith, a sense of justice, very auspicious and dharmic [00:15:00] kind of planet. So we've got these two planets in your chart are really important. And we are talking about them because they're in the sky together right now.

Vedic Astrology Mythology of Jupiter, Mercury, Tara and the Moon

Fiona Marques: But maybe to explain a little bit the different ways that they operate, I wanted to share a bit of Vedic Astrology mythology. And this kind of goes way back to Season 2 that Nisha Sankaran and I were working our way through the planets, but we stopped at Mercury and Jupiter, so we never got a chance to talk about these ones. That was back in Season 2. We did episode 10, 11, and 14. But now is a great time to pick back up to this Jupiter and Mercury mythology because they're interconnected.And the best way I think to start this story is to connect with the mother of Mercury, whose name is Tara. And she's one of the great wisdom goddesses or [00:16:00] Mahavidyas in Hinduism. And she's powerful and compassionate deity. And her appearance is not that dissimilar to Kali. She's got the blue skin and the skull necklace and sometimes some swords. And according to the Samudra Mantham, Tara emerged from the churning of the ocean of unconsciousness. So this is a really foundational experience in Vedic Astrology mythology where manifestation is brought out from this milky unconscious ocean. So she's very foundational. And in fact in some versions of that story, she actually helps Shiva, who is involved in this churning of the ocean because at one point he consumes poison and she's able to comfort and heal him by providing breast milk. So she is [00:17:00] really strong, powerful, integral part of Vedic Astrology mythology.

And later on she ends up marrying Jupiter, who is the guru, the great teacher, the teacher of the gods. And is in charge of tradition and ritual and like a priest, I guess kind of role. So they create a really formidable team of equals with their intellect, their power, their compassion, their wisdom.

But Jupiter is a Graha in that he moves through the ecliptic, like all of the planets, he moves on a shorter timescale. And that's why humans are really interested in planets because they move at the pace that humans can follow in the sky. And he goes through this cycle of exaltation and debilitation.

Whereas Tara is a fixed star. Perhaps Aldebaran in Rohini Nakshatra. [00:18:00] All the universities moving, but at a much slower pace. So she remains constant while Jupiter moves. And her location in Rohini Nakshatra is considered the place in the sky where the Moon is the happiest. It's actually just after the Moon's exaltation degrees.

So on one such occasion when Jupiter was traveling, it so happened that the Moon and Tara had an affair. And this caused a lot of tension between what is legally right, what is the right thing to do, like what you're expected to do by others in all of our traditions and what is right for the individual. What is keeping us alive? What is keeping our emotions and our flow of excitement about life alive?

So here is this tension that perhaps we all feel. But when Jupiter found out about this situation, he was very [00:19:00] unhappy that Tara was with the Moon and he spoke to Indra, the Lord of the Gods, and asked that Indra order the Moon to return Tara. But the Moon was very clear that was a decision for Tara herself.

So here we have this kind of love triangle or controversial arrangement between the Moon and Jupiter and Tara. And it's got these layers of complexity because Jupiter is actually exalted in the Moon sign of Cancer, and that's what brings out Jupiter's best. And Tara's Nakshatra of Rohini, is where the Moon is happiest. Tara is also in Taurus Rasi where the Moon is exalted. So we've got all of these players bringing out the best in each other, but they've managed to get into some triangular tension here.[00:20:00]

And the Moon is our own personality, our unique jiva. Whereas Jupiter is the guru and it's in charge of the 9th sign and the 9th House of ritual, tradition, devotion. So this love triangle is exploring in the mythology how we balance our own personal desires with our commitment and dharmic duties.

And Tara is strong enough and powerful enough to independently explore this journey. No one can boss her around, and she takes her time. So even though Indra has asked her to return, she's so well respected and she's so owns her own presence that she doesn't completely comply. And in fact, there's a lot of, there's a kind of war that takes place. There's a lot of tension about this. But finally, she does return to Jupiter, but when she returns, she's pregnant with a child and nobody is sure if it's the Moon's child or if it's [00:21:00] Jupiter's child.

And this sets up Mercury's approach to life because Mercury is that child. So even before Mercury is born, it is asking itself, who am I? Who am I truly? It has this unknown identity and unknown heritage. And I think this is what brings to Mercury that intellectual rigor of questioning that allows us to uncover the truth and to wake up from the dream that we're all having in this illusion of the manifest or material world. So Mercury helps us with that Vedanta approach to enlightenment, that it is through questioning that we will be able to wake up consciousness.

Even though Mercury has these doubts about who am I, it turns out that when he's born, he's so beautiful, he's so [00:22:00] clever and so intelligent that Jupiter is happy to claim Mercury as his own child, even though in fact it is the Moon who is the father of Mercury.

So for all of those reasons, we find these complex relationships between Jupiter, the Moon and Mercury in a Vedic Astrology birth chart, we know that Jupiter is going to delight the Moon and Mercury when they're together in the same sign. And that's what we have in recording this podcast. We know that Jupiter and Mercury are together in Gemini. So Jupiter's causing delight.

The Moon is going to delight Jupiter by aspect or sign. Mercury is going to delight the Moon by aspect or sign. But Mercury is going to starve Jupiter if Jupiter's in Mercury's sign, as it is right now in Gemini, or by aspect. And the Moon is going to starve Mercury by aspect or sign.

So we have these complex interrelationships of sometimes bringing out the best and [00:23:00] sometimes bringing out the worst. So it reminds me of one of those complex sort of Thanksgiving weekend movies where all these different family members are together and sometimes they're bringing out the best and sometimes they're bringing out the worst.

So I think for those of us as Vedic Astrology enthusiasts, when we hear the title "Restless", we can identify with that because of this Jupiter-Mercury situation, we know in this birth chart that we have Jupiter in the sign of Gemini. So in some ways Jupiter is going to struggle sometimes there because Mercury is bringing Jupiter down to the detail and all of the data and distractions and all of the organizing that perhaps Jupiter might like to be more connected to the contentment and interconnectedness of everything, and Mercury's going to bring it down into the weeds.

So as you listen to that story, that's the [00:24:00] first time that you're hearing some Vedic Astrology mythology, can you relate or connect to some elements of that story?

José Marques: Yes, definitely. Definitely the "restless" part. That's quite a strong thing in my personality. I was a restless traveller during that period of travel as a 23-year-old, but in a way, I've always been a bit restless. Maybe that comes from circumstances of how I was born and when I was born, the movement of my father and my mother around that time, they're trying to escape the police. So I feel like there was a lot of restlessness, around the time of my birth. And not just the time of my birth, but that, continued with all the movements within Portugal that we did, and then the movement to France, the movement to Australia.

And I think one of the features of my travel in Europe in those four months, in 1977 was that [00:25:00] where I felt the most stable was in Portugal. Like when I was with my family in Portugal. It felt like time was not passing, I felt happy to be there, be around them. But even then leaving my family and going to other places in Portugal, like by myself, I just never quite, for example, I visited the south of Portugal, where we had lived when my younger brother was born. And even there I really enjoyed the landscape. I enjoyed being there, but even then, I. I was like thinking about where am I going next? Couldn't stay still. And I think it was a bit like that whole European trip. I had a lot of beautiful experiences in that time, but I just, I felt like this need to keep moving all the time.

I'm pretty sure that's not unusual, for people to travel. And I could definitely relate to the restless aspect.

Mercury as Mother and Jupiter as Father for a Gemini Ascendant

Fiona Marques: Let me pick up on a few of the things that you've, you mentioned there, and then maybe I'll ask you if this is one of the things you connected with. 

José Marques: You mentioned your mother and the circumstance of your [00:26:00] birth and the stress and anxiety that she was under. And I think that this is also a good way to tap into some of that Mercury energy that because it is connected to worldly data, Mercury it's amazing and its ability to organize and manage life. So this is a great skill of Mercury. But it can worry about things especially things that are beyond its control. And this can lead to an anxiety about life.

Fiona Marques: And there's a real contrast in your chart between and in your life experience between your mother who had an anxious approach to life or certainly through at this period, and maybe then affected her life.

 But then I want to contrast it again with Jupiter, which is representing your father the 10th Lord in this chart, because although this Jupiter we are saying is in Gemini and therefore is going to feel a little bit restless, it's actually a beautifully placed Jupiter. We don't even need to look at your chart to know that it's got great Chesta [00:27:00] bala confidence because we know that Mercury is in Sagittarius, which means the Sun isn't far away. And I happen to know the sun in this chart is in Sagittarius. So we have Jupiter in your birth chart all the way over the other side from the sun, meaning that in those evenings, nights when you were born, anyone born around this time, Jupiter would've been beautifully bright in the sky reflecting back so much of that sunlight. So this gives Jupiter a lot of confidence in a person's life and chart.

We also know that it's very close to its exaltation point because, just like Jupiter is now in Gemini in the sky right now, it'll very soon be moving to Cancer where it is exalted. So we know your Jupiter also had its own inner store of faith in itself and faith in life that although there's busyness and distraction, the inner core of yourself had a deep sense of faith and contentment.

And we know that Jupiter [00:28:00] loves to be on the 1st House. That's where it gets the most Dig bala. So I was listening to your story that you were just sharing there and contrasting this restlessness and a little bit the personality of your two parents and also of yourself that your father is such a strong influence in your life, an inspiring person, just as this Jupiter is so beautiful in your chart and your mother was the person that you maybe spent more time with and she had a tendency sometimes to worry and to be anxious. 

José Marques: As you were speaking, I was thinking that yes, both my parents had very strong aspects to their personality. I think I saw my father, I saw my father as being a little bit distant, because he seemed very preoccupied with his work or with these political activities, I suppose at that time. but even when we lived in Australia and we were very far away from all of that, my father was very [00:29:00] consumed by work, providing for his family, but also consumed with the Portuguese community, in the city of Canberra where we lived. So in a way he still had that political life of drawing people together, and making things happen in the Portuguese community. For me, he was always a role model of doing things, helping other people getting other people together. And and he was a doer, and I saw him as very courageous because, he did what he did as a young man, he tried to improve the, to make Portugal a better place to live for everyone. So that's why I think he joined the Communist Party to try and change what was happening in the country. And then he left Portugal because he wanted to take care of his family. He wanted to make a better life for his children. And my mother, so I always saw my father, as a figure to someone to become to be courageous, to do things sometimes even on by myself. Like he did, when he was [00:30:00] on his own, working for the Party. And, but my mother, I always saw was a little bit of a weak fi figure in my life because she was anxious, and she was constantly demands on me as her son and not just on me, but on, on her other children. And so I saw as a bit of a weak figure, but it's really taking me a long time to understand this. But think, looking back at how diff the difficult circumstances that we lived in, in, in our early years in Portugal, like me and my brothers, think my mother did have a lot of love for us, and she protected us as much as she could, with that love. This is something that I recently felt, that whilst my father was not available, be because of his political activities my mother did her best to, to to hold us, within her love and to look after us as best as she could. So I do feel grateful for my mother for having so [00:31:00] much influence. Being a nurturer and a carer for her children, on her own a lot of that time. My father was not available.

Fiona Marques: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's very beautiful that life is long enough for us to go through and unravel and reconnect with our parents at different times in different contexts. 

Migrant Identity - Who am I?

José Marques: I want to circle back to something that you were saying there, and I'm wondering whether there's some passages in the book you might like to share, because you were talking about how the restlessness during this European trip, sometimes in Portugal, but that there were times when you were with your family where time stood still and your identity was no longer a question.

Fiona Marques: So I'm wondering in the book, if you can share some passages about what it was like having that migrant experience of "Am I my parents culture or am I my new culture?" And any passages about [00:32:00] traveling and reconnecting with your identity and self through your family?

José Marques: Yeah. Although it was a big adventure moving from Portugal to France and then from France to Australia, of course it was also, very challenging. I suppose on a deeper level as a child or as a young person, dealing with all these changes. And I think a lot of the way that we, I was able to deal with that and possibly my younger brothers as well, he is having a strong sense of family. And feeling protected by our parents. And I think I think I personally always felt protected by them. It, it doesn't mean that I always enjoyed what they did or whatever, but I have felt protected by my family.

But when we went to Australia, I think my vision was with going to a new country. And I suppose my survival instinct was telling me "You're a new country, you have to learn a new language, you have to adapt to a new culture". I did find it quite difficult adapting to Australian culture. But think what [00:33:00] happened was I was open to the adventure. I was open to adapting to a new country. I was open to becoming an Australian, and letting go of my Portuguese-ness. But obviously I felt conflicted, was I Portuguese? Was I Australian? And I think what I tried to do was to let go of the Portuguese in me, to, because I couldn't be both at the same time. So I think I tried to let go of the Portuguese. So I, anyway I might read something here from the book, which talks about that experience, of being in Australia, living in a Portuguese community.

" As a family, living in that city, we naturally came into contact with families of our own nationality, especially as my father in his role as President of the Community Social Club became a point of contact for many of the Portuguese living there. Most of these immigrants had a low educational background and had come from a low economic status. I related to them in a friendly and natural way as they were [00:34:00] friends of the family or part of the community. But in the back of my mind, I was observing that the men were often crude, made lude remarks sometimes in front of the women and bragged about their material possessions. The women were often sweet and caring, humbler than the men, but also generally overweight like their husbands. Of course, I'm speaking generally, and there were exceptions. Nevertheless, it is quite possible that my early opinion of Portuguese that they were obese, loud and uncooked braggarts with the women being generally more appealing because of their kindness. Their appearance and demeanor were far from the ideals of beauty and charm that I was growing up with in Australia. The tall, slim, and elegant bodies with matching attractive and intelligent personalities. These ideals were portrayed in popular magazines such as Vogue, Cosmopolitan, and Life. Hollywood movies, the 1960s and 70s, as exemplified by the charming and enigmatic [00:35:00] James Stewart and the handsome and broody Mel Gibson. And in the European cinema of the 1950s and 60s, as demonstrated by the emancipated sexiness of Brigitte Bardot and the talented, voluptuousness of Sofia Loren".

 I think this was me trying to find my new personality. Releasing myself, from the Portuguese part of of my life and adopting Australian culture. And so naturally when I went back, after I had already lived in Australia 10 years, and I had, tried to become a good Australian, even though Australians kept calling me a "wog", which was a derogatory term for people that came from Europe. Not from British Europe, from other European countries like Italians, Greeks, and Portuguese. Were all labeled "wogs". When I went back to Europe in 1977, and especially to Portugal, I was coming with this kind of negative view the Portuguese people. And I had estranged myself in a way from [00:36:00] their culture because in a way that's what I'd done living in Canberra. I couldn't relate to the Portuguese people there.

And so when I went to visit, in 1977, I was already estranged from Portuguese people. And so it was quite difficult for me to feel like connected to the country. The only exception is really my family. I felt very accepted by my family. Which kind of pleasantly surprised me because I felt like I had not seen them like for 11 years and just accepted me as a normal person that was part of their family. And I was just amazed by that.

 My grandmother, for example, it might be nice if I can read something about my grandmother because I think she was also quite a key figure for me in my childhood.

So this was when I first saw my grandmother in Lisbon. 

"She was around 80 and looked frail. I noticed her dark eyebrows, the untidy gray mass of hair, the heavyset eyeglasses, and the puffy wrinkled face and fingers. But she seemed well enough with a [00:37:00] bright stare and carefully dressed. Her special affection for me may have been because I was the first son and an obedient one. As a child, I stayed with her at the cottage in Lisbon. And during the summer holidays at the more spacious but centuries old Marvão house. In the city, she took me to Protestant church and to various street corners where we would sit for hours selling bric-a-brac to passers by. This would've supplemented a meager government pension. It was like an adventure each time we went out, as I never knew which street corner we would end up in. Sometimes we ventured further out and hopped on the tram. As they still do these yellow painted vehicles shook violently and screeched loudly as they made their way up and down and around the hills of Lisbon. Everything inside the cottage looked very old and in decay. I understood that each of [00:38:00] those things contained a memory of something important in her life. I must have been one of those things because there were several photos of me displayed on the shelves at the back. When I was there, she treated me with the same kindness that she had done when I was a child speaking sweetly and offering me coffee and cakes. But she also talked a lot about people stealing from her, which I found difficult to believe and which led me to write that she was probably senile."

My grandmother was Protestant, which is very unusual for a Portuguese person to be Protestant, and most of them are Catholic. So already that says something, she was not like the others. She was her own person. And my father was like that, he was his own person. He had his own ideals. He was a communist in a way, but he also had the courage to leave the Communist Party and to choose his family. 

Fiona Marques: Yeah, so it was great to hear those passages and contrast between what I'm sure many [00:39:00] migrants experience, which is a rejection of their parents' culture or rejection of the part of themselves that belongs to their past and their old world. Because in order to survive, you have to fully embrace the new. And that often involves rejecting parts of yourself. And then the basis of this book "A Restless Traveller" is the first time you've come back. So could you read that part from the 

José Marques: epilogue where you reflect on your identity, because I think this all plays into the mythology of Mercury, which is "Who am I?"

 There were a lot of things that I took back with me to Australia from Portugal in terms of material things and non-material things. Obviously the time that I spent with my family was very important. The time that I spent with my old school friend, Fernando, that was also very important. And I took things back with me, including music LPs. Those things that I took back to Australia over time [00:40:00] helped me to reconnect. The reconnecting to my Portuguese-ness was a long process that began when I returned to Portugal in 1977. And then I went back to Australia. And over a period of many years, I reconnected with my Portuguese-ness. Which led me eventually to return to live in Portugal in 2006. 

"The LPs I took back with me were modern reworkings of traditional melodies or compositions that had been censored prior to the 1974 revolution. These works were much more sophisticated than what I had heard in my childhood and spoke to me of the Portuguese spirit of adventure, daring and solidarity. More importantly, they spoke to me on an emotional level. The music had a much greater impact on me than the literature, with only six years of school in Portugal, I did not have the language to easily access it. The music awakened something in my heart, something which grew in the quiet recesses [00:41:00] of my mind, and which 27 years later would draw me back there. As I said to my wife, Fiona, when we visited in 2004, I seem to have found my heart again.

The issue of whether I am Portuguese or Australian has been a lifelong quandary, but it feels a reduced significance now. I sometimes like to say that I have the organized mind of an Australian and the tender heart of the Portuguese. In short, I am a mutt, a cross-breed, a mongrel." I say that in a nice way, "Is it so important what nationality you are? Was it important in Australia to me and others than it has been here in Portugal? I feel more at home here, and I find it easier to be both of my nationalities. Would I feel the same in Australia if I were living there? I suspect not, but who can say?"

Fiona Marques: So this is a beautiful [00:42:00] passage to, to wrap up these themes that we were talking about. I feel that it really relates to the mythology of Mercury, of who am I? And even it's so beautiful you say you're connecting through the music because in Vedic Astrology it's the Moon that rules music and it fits in It's the Moon is one of these players. And for a Gemini Ascendant the Moon also rules our immediate family. So it's so interesting that it was the immediate family and the music that pulled you back into being integrated Portuguese who'd lived in Australia for a long time. You were able to be both and rather than one or the other.

José Marques: Yeah, I think it was those two things that connected me back to my heart, the Portuguese heart, because my family was very loving and accepting of me, my family here in Portugal, and that connected me back to my heart. And then the music was so emotional. All the longing, the [00:43:00] solidarity. All of those things just appealed to me so much that they filled my heart. And those things I had been missing in Australia.

Fiona Marques: And it's really, once again, you're so beautifully set up for this episode because that is why Jupiter becomes exalted in Cancer, the sign of the Moon, because Jupiter, it has all this wisdom. It has all of this knowledge, it has all this faith. It really is the great teacher of the gods. But it is when it's in Cancer that it connects to the heart and that auspicious knowledge and the bliss of existing, when that comes and touches a person's heart, that's when Jupiter really opens someone up. So this very beautiful way to explore these planets through your book and through your chart.

And I wanted to pick up on something else that you were reflecting on there when we were talking about this mythology of Tara, the mother of Mercury who, is married to Jupiter, but has this affair with the Moon. I wanted to talk about [00:44:00] the themes that you're sharing about. So you mentioned with your grandmother that you are an obedient grandchild or obedient child. You are a child of migrants. So there's always this expectation of success when one is the first generation in a new country, the, there's a expectation that you will perform well be successful as a way to validate such a big sacrifice that parents have made to change countries.

José Marques: That the context of this book is that you're in the middle of studying to be a lawyer. That was something that you did because you had academically achieved, while you'd arrived at Australian High School, not speaking a word of English, you'd left Australian High School as the second highest graduate of your year, and you'd gone on to university and was studying law because people said that's what you should do.

Fiona Marques: This is a, an honorable

José Marques: I was smart, so I should do

Fiona Marques: Yeah.

José Marques: law.

Fiona Marques: [00:45:00] Yeah. And so the context of the time when this book is written is actually that you are being the good migrant son and doing what you can to set up your life to be successful. But as you said in the epilogue you just read, would I feel as comfortable if I was living in Australia?

There's also that question, would you have ever pursued being a lawyer if you had never left Portugal. So I'm wondering if you have any response to the mythology around Tara choosing. Do we choose the traditions as Jupiter, is our commitments and our faith and our parents' lineage? Do we choose to be faithful to that? Or do you choose what your heart is guiding you to, even though it might be unconventional or doesn't seem to have a path of financial success ? And for example, later on in your life you did go on to pursue acting and you have a university education [00:46:00] in theater arts. Can you relate to Tara in this story choosing between what one should do and who one truly is?

José Marques: The mother of a school friend suggested that I do law because, in her words, or "You could do law because you're smart enough". And so maybe I related to that, you're smart enough. And I thought, oh yeah, I'm smart enough so I can do law. And I had no idea, I just did law because also because I thought this is a good education to have in terms of finding work. As a lawyer I have different opportunities in terms of work, I don't have to be a lawyer. I can be other things apart from a lawyer. Studying law was a good basis for my future, employment future. So that's why I studied law. But it was not, my life pursuit, and, and then yes, like you said moved over to the arts because I felt that although I was a capable lawyer [00:47:00] and I was able to be a lawyer I also felt as a lawyer, I felt there was a lot of injustice in the law. And I think I had some difficulties in dealing with that. Coming to terms with that. 

 And then seeing the attitude of some of the other lawyers, that it was all about winning. It was not about, I don't know, using the law in a beneficial way for everyone. It was about winning, so all of those things made it difficult for me to accept the law as a life pursuit.

Jupiter starved by Mercury - Kshudita Avastha

Fiona Marques: I'm just going to jump in there to say that's such a beautiful expression of Jupiter, on the 1st House in Gemini. Jupiter is associated with law, and, but truly with what you're saying with true justice. And there's nothing maybe quite disappointing as actually practicing law in some ways, because you see what you see the reality of it. And then that's what, where we see this effect of Jupiter being in Mercury sign. The ideals that Jupiter has naturally about truth and [00:48:00] justice when they're in Gemini, they meet up with the real detail of, like you were saying, the a system that you know is broken and that no one's really being guided by these auspicious values it's just process. So it's a really good example of Jupiter being a little bit starved there.

José Marques: I did try to, with my clients, I did try to help them, in a genuine way, for example, an important part of my work was personal injury cases, whether there were workers' compensation or car accidents, things like that. And I did try to, do my best to look after those clients and did the best for them. But it was really all about money. I couldn't offer them emotional guidance, that's in a way what naturally I would want to give them in some kind of emotional affection or something. But instead, no, all I could give them was, " I can try and get more money for you."

Fiona Marques: This is another great example of Jupiter being starved by Gemini because Jupiter is abundance and compassion. And Mercury and Geminiit's the penny pinching and [00:49:00] the balancing the spreadsheet and the, it's the, the actual process of managing money. So it's a big clash.

Both of them are great in relation to money, but Mercury's approach is the nitty gritty management of physical money, and Jupiter is the abundant compassion there's enough for everybody.

José Marques: I think I did that part, of the nitty gritty of the money thing I did that, and I applied myself, as, as much as I could with my clients. I would even say things to them like, "Okay, I need to send you toa specialist, And I said, I'm going to send you to this specialist, not because he's the best person to treat your injury, but because he's good at giving reports. That'll help your case". But of course I felt conflicted because I just wanted the person to resolve their injury and, to take care of themselves.

Fiona Marques: These are great examples of Jupiter being stared by Mercury. And even both Mercury and Jupiter love to play games. But in Vedic Astrology, Mercury has no gender. And it [00:50:00] also is the planet that can be benefic or can be malefic depending on who it's with. So Mercury can have this two-faced nature to it, which is why it can be open to all options, which is what allows us to explore, which is, we already spoke about how important it is to be adventurous, but then this thing with Mercury and the way that it plays games means that perhaps there's no moral compass there for Mercury when it's playing games. It can become about winning and winning through quick wit or outwitting someone. Whereas Jupiter, of course is about, those more auspicious and dharmic ways of play and of games, the enjoyment of playing. Whereas Mercury perhaps a little bit more about winning. So once again, we see that, even in your work as a lawyer, that conflict between outwitting other lawyers versus, truly representing justice.

José Marques: It was interesting you used the word outwitting because I think that's something that's alien to me, in my person. [00:51:00] I never want to be outwitting anyone. But I remember a very clear example in those first two years that I worked as a lawyer, there was one specific case where I outwitted someone who happened to be a friend who was a lawyer in the same town. And so now Bill and I had cases against each other. And we were living in the same house. And there was one specific case where I outwitted him. And when he found out about it, obviously he was not happy I wasn't happy. I felt terrible about it, even the whole time that I was out trying to outwit him, which he was probably trying to outwit me time. I felt terrible about the whole thing, about trying to outwit another lawyer who happened to be a friend. It was just such an uncomfortable thing. 

Fiona Marques: That again, is what makes one "restless" is because the fit is just not quite right. And that's what it can feel like with Jupiter being in [00:52:00] Gemini.

This part we've been talking about how the title "A Restless Traveller" sheds a lot of light on your birth chart and on this dynamic between Mercury and Jupiter in anybody's chart and their placement for example, if Jupiter's in Gemini and it's brought in some lovely things about the Tara story and the Moon and how important the Moon was in your life.

But another major theme that I want to explore about "A Restless Traveller", is that it's actually also a quest for intimacy, a quest for connection, a quest for romance. So this four months that you spent as a 23-year-old exploring "How adventurous can I be? Proving to myself, through discovery, who I truly am".

 1-7, 7-1 and the Pursuit of Love and Connection

Fiona Marques: But one of the quests that you're on during the whole journey is to have a connection with another human being. So in, in some ways, it's a love story, a [00:53:00] search for love story? 

José Marques: Yeah. I think I was looking for a deep, meaningful connection with with another woman. To fall in love.And in a way, going to Europe was also about that, to experience that romantic thing, falling in love. It was part of the adventure and wishful thinking, about what Europe would be like I met different women that I was attracted to during my travels, but nothing actually, really happened. Until met someone on the train traveling between Germany and Denmark. I met the Swedish girl on a train and I in love with her? I in love with the idea of falling in love? But I went to visit her later in my trip and, we spent three days together, four days maybe. And I was just completely intensely in love with her, for this four days. And it was an amazing experience. And when I look back on that, I [00:54:00] can, I can say that I think that was the first time that I fell in love. think I've only really fallen in life twice in my life. Once, with Sigrid. That was the first person that I ever fell in love with. And the second person was you!

Fiona Marques: Yay. Yes. So this theme of the quest for connection, the quest for, like you say, falling in love for having a true moment with someone is almost a yardstick through the book, isn't it? To measure the satisfaction with the experience of traveling is, am I having a connection with someone?

And this is also reflected in the Astrology because we've talked about the 1st Lord and the 7th Lord in relation to where we live, how far away from home we live.

And that idea of the 1st Lord and the 1st House being the eastern horizon at birth, and the 7th Lord, the 7th House being the western horizon at birth. And like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the western horizon is that it's [00:55:00] just dipping below. From the moment we are born that's the part of our life that we can chase that no matter how far we chase, it's always the pot of gold. But it is also in, in Astrology the 1st Lord is the self and the 7th Lord is the partner. So having this exchange, as we do in this birth chart where the 1st Lord goes to the 7th House and the 7th Lord goes to the 1st House, we know that this person is going to want to experience and understand themselves through connecting to a partner. Through meeting the mirror. "And it's in the mirror, in the connection with the mirror that I can truly understand myself".

So it's not surprising that one of the, the main quests in the book is, a deep deep hidden secret desire, like a hopeful desire that there might be something meaningful.

José Marques: So I'm wondering about a couple of passages in the book. 

Fiona Marques: Okay.

José Marques: " One of my first attempts at writing was a short story penned [00:56:00] in the years of early adolescence, about three teenagers marooned on a deserted island. He tells of the deep sadness of one of the two boys on seeing the girl attach herself to the other boy. But also of his feeling of hope that one day he would find love. This book is in part, a retelling of that story".

Fiona Marques: It's such a beautiful story and I think it does set up something about this book, so it's very beautiful that you were able to include that. And then I would like to invite you to read something from Sigrid's story. If there is such a passage that maybe expresses something about what it meant to you, what it gave to you.

José Marques: I found a nice passage. 

Fiona Marques: "In my diary I described her apartment as follows: A kindling warmth pervades her flat. Like one engendered by a soft DH Lawrence fire in a country house. There are wall hangings, a distracted and natural [00:57:00] arrangement of green plants, and a soft, subtle lighting gives a sensual touch to everything. There is an unmistakable soft dreamlike atmosphere inhabited by gently airy beings, an untouchable fantasy". I'll just stop the reading there just to say that this is from my diary that I kept the, some of the passages, which I hope will be clear, come from the actual diary that I wrote at the time. And that was one that, that last bit. "Sigrid herself was one and all of those airy beings. It seemed that I had become completely entranced by her. The magical world of her apartment and my own fantasies of being caught in oceanic love. I wrote that quote, the first two days were completely exasperating unquote. As Sigrid quote on her own is not so difficult to try and ignore, but in the surroundings of her flat is almost totally irresistible. End of [00:58:00] quote. Not only was I entranced, but also desirous of moving as quickly as possible to the consummation of my fantasy. Quote. I was strangely and totally captivated, unquote. That first night I slept on Sigrid's bed and she lay on a mattress on the floor next to the bed. A few gazes away from my perched position. So close, and yet, so far. What I really wanted was to accidentally fall off the bed and into her arms. The following day, 12 December, we drove to the father's house in the country. The rest of the afternoon, I wandered, aimlessly restlessly through the living room, gazing periodically at the fire, gazing and or avoiding Sigrid's sensual look. When she looked at me, her eyes transmitted kindness and her gentle love. There was no awkwardness, no mixed feelings, but being with her and not being with her in this neutral and tranquil space made me [00:59:00] feel very restless. There was a fire burning inside me and I didn't know whether to feed it or to try and put it out.

José Marques:  There was no premeditation, no intention to seduce or obtain anything from her. The wanting was all wanting to be with her. With no separation of any kind. I spoke not with words, but with my eyes, with my whole being. And quote came the moment when she realized my absolute longing for her arms unquote. I was now completely at her mercy. Sigrid looked at me with such kindness, but what she said was not what I wanted to hear. Quote, "I like you. I really like you, but I can't give loving to two people at the same time. It is something very special I have with my boyfriend of two years. I'm sorry". My [01:00:00] heart sunk. My gaze dropped to the floor. I could not face her witnessing the sadness welling up in my eyes. And then my body contorted into an quote absolute childish animal-like unquote figure of sadness. I was like a child that had been abandoned by the roadside that now lived without hope. At that moment, she suddenly gave herself wholly to me. She came to me, surrounded me with her arms, and held me and me kissed me. This time with a passion that I had not felt from her before.

 As I'm listening to that story, I'm again hearing our Tara mythology. This is exactly the same situation, isn't it? That this woman actually was in a committed relationship, like Tara was in our mythology. Tara married to Jupiter, and yet she goes off and has this [01:01:00] experience with the Moon. And here is Sigrid in the same situation. And that your vulnerability, your sensitivity, those emotional qualities of the Moon, the receptivity of the Moon.

Fiona Marques: She just finally gave herself fully to that. 

José Marques: She just couldn't resist me.

Fiona Marques: We can all relate to that.

Alright our whole conversation has really been very useful in exploring this mythology between Jupiter, the Moon, Mercury, and Tara. And I didn't realize I had forgotten quite the setup, but I didn't realize that the love story also did that as well. So it's been really helpful to explore your chart and your book as a way of understanding Jupiter and Mercury.

Obviously I could talk to you all day and we often do, but we should wrap up our podcast episode and I thought that before we go, one of the things, changing pace entirely that I wanted to check in with you was

Mercury Ascendants, the Process of Writing and Profound Self Acceptance

Fiona Marques: can you tell us a little bit about the process of writing and what that was like for you?

Because [01:02:00] once again, this plays on these two planets in your chart because Mercury is the planet of communication and of written communication and of words and language. And has it been a dream of yours to be able to be a writer one day? Tell us a little bit about the process of this project and writing and publishing this book.

José Marques: Yeah, sure. For me writing is really a way to express myself, to express what I think and what I feel. And that's why I think I went into the theater as well, because whilst I derived a lot of satisfaction from being a lawyer because of the intellectual challenge, and it gave me an opportunity to help people and to contribute towards justice in society. So that satisfied some parts of me. But I also needed to express something on a deeper level. I had been writing poems most of my life, to express my [01:03:00] feelings. So I, I think why I started writing this book was because my father never wrote about his life. And I always regretted that he hadn't, so that I could understand better where he was coming from as a person, why he became political, why he joined the Communist Party, why he made the choices that he did. I would've liked to have known more about his early life. And so I was motivated to write about my life. So it took me two years. I really enjoyed it as a process. I was very committed to finishing it. It felt like a great sense of achievement once I'd actually published it. But obviously, the process of writing, it was pretty challenging at times. Especially getting feedback from other people, not the feedback that you wanted, negative feedback.And I think I mentioned in the blurb at the back that the book is not just about those four months of my life, but it's about how that relates to other things in my life. Particularly to important issues like, and I mentioned the issue of love and identity, which we've already talked [01:04:00] about, but the other issue is self-judgment. And I think, getting negative criticism before I published my book from a colleague and a friend, made me write about self-judgment. "How do I look at myself when other people see me in a different way, or other people don't like what I do, what I say?" So I think that was probably the most difficult thing to write about, this self judgment issue. But I tried to deal with that in the book. I hope, in a good way, in a useful way for other people if they read the book.

Fiona Marques: But I think after writing the book and going through all that challenge of writing about these things, I understood that those were parts of me, and that I can learn to accept those parts of me. Contributed to my understanding that I'm not a perfect human being. Nobody is. And that it's okay to, to have parts of yourself that are not perfect. And and I think, you in particular also helped me to embrace that part of myself, that I'm not a [01:05:00] perfect human being. 

So what you're saying is that the whole process of writing the book had this unexpected c omponent of truly deepening your self-acceptance and just the love that you have for yourself in all of your forms. 

José Marques: Yes, exactly. So when I talk about self-judgment, I'm really including in that self-acceptance.

Fiona Marques: Yeah. So there, there's a lot, there are a lot of gifts from the process of writing and reflecting on one's life. And this is very profound what you're sharing. And it really, once again, goes to that mythology of Mercury and the circumstance of Mercury's birth. Not knowing who his father was. And the gods kind of forcing, "What's the lineage of Mercury? Is it from the Moon? Is it from Jupiter?" And Mercury having that identity of, "Who do I belong to?" And whether he was going to be at birth, rejected by one of these parents. Like Jupiter might have not accepted Mercury.

And here we see that theme even in this as you're reflecting on just the process of writing had [01:06:00] that thematic story from the mythology of profound self-acceptance. And that, the true beauty of Mercury is just so beautiful a s it is that, that Jupiter leapt to claim Mercury as his son, even though biologically he wasn't his own son.

José Marques: It was interesting you used the adjective profound, next to self-acceptance because, it's easy to say, "Oh yeah, of course I accept myself". But saying it is very easy actually doing it in a way, it's a very profound thing.

 I think it's a lifelong thing. Coming to terms of who you are and coming to terms of how other people are. And how you are different and how you are the same.

Fiona Marques: Alright, so there's so many things that, I have in my notes that we haven't covered for anybody that did their gap year. This is the kind of book that you might relate to. If anybody did their Europe on a shoestring or Europe on $10 a day or whatever. This is a book that's set in that context of a [01:07:00] Eurail Pass and all of the different countries and the way that one's adventure develops from who you sit next to on a particular train, mentions a particular place and you end up adjusting your plan. So we haven't spoken at all really about many components of the book. So I, I do want to encourage people who may be children of migrants or are reconnecting with our identity of how rich this book is for you as a reader.

And perhaps that's where we should bring our conversation to an end for today. José,

Farewell and Conclusion

Fiona Marques: thanks for coming on my Vedic Astrology podcast after all of these years. It's lovely to have you here with me. And thanks for sharing your life so openly and allowing us to explore Jupiter and Mercury in Vedic Astrology.

José Marques: Thank you. And I just wanted to say that, of course I didn't understand a lot of the detail of Astrology. But I did feel like I connected with the fundamental aspects of it. So I appreciated it. Yeah. I think I have a little bit of an understanding of Vedic Astrology.

Fiona Marques: Thanks for being so open [01:08:00] to that and, hearing a little bit about Vedic Astrology. I'm really touched by how this myth really resonates with your life story. 

Alright. And thanks everybody for staying with us and for listening along. I've put all the details in the description and of course you can order José's book on Amazon and at lulu.com. And those links will be available in the description. All right. Thanks everybody, and look forward to seeing you next time on the Vedic Astrology Podcast.

Bye everyone.

José Marques: Bye.

Fiona Marques: Bye.